This is an auto-transcription. Please excuse mistakes.

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Welcome to Challenging #ParadigmX.

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is the assessment system in education, beneficial
for the development of pupils and students.

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What are the key skills for success in life?

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And how do boxes?

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We put people into influence behavior.

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My guest today is Marcus Orlovsky.

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Marcus is passionate about education and
helping young people to find their path.

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originally has a background in finance, real estate
and technology, and is also a chartered accountant.

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He was heavily involved in designing
and building new schools in the UK.

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And after having worked on 300 new school projects,
he realized that the change in attitude from both
teachers and students is necessary for transformation.

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He’s worked with nearly 100,000 students, generally drawn
from those less likely to achieve with astonishing success.

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The social enterprise markers found that
empower students to be inquisitive and seek out

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Their own pathways

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in his spare time.

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Marcus hosts, a number of TEDx events has spoken at many
and is asked to speak at major conferences globally.

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Marcus had a major stroke, seven years ago, he delivered
the opening keynote for the national association of
head teachers and our conference only 14 days later.

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so if you’re interested in our conversation on
education and unfolding potential, stay tuned.

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Hello.

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Welcome Marcus.

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It’s a great pleasure to have you here today.

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Please introduce yourself.

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Where are you and what do you do?

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So I’m Marcus, Marcus.

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Orlowsky, I’m here in Wimbledon, Southwest London.

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And right now, I guess I work in the world of
education, but you know, when you say you work in the
world of education, people say, so are you a teacher?

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Are you a parent?

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So why do you work in the world of education?

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Because I think we can all do our bit to improve
the life chances of young people through education.

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So what exactly, like, in which
direction do you work in education?

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Well field, well, you see that’s,
that’s what becomes tricky.

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I, the background to this is I think in my country,
especially we have a lot of young people who’ve been taught
stuff in schools and they don’t know why they need to learn.

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And actually a lot of the teachers don’t
know what you can do with it anyway.

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And there, because we have this crazy testing system
at the end of a few years, we sit students down to
pass exams, to see what they can remember of stuff,
which they didn’t know why they need to learn by
teachers who don’t know what you can do with it.

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Anyway.

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So is it any surprise that for some students,
especially those in less affluent or less
gifted communities, they tend not to do.

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I personally don’t think it’s a surprise.

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It’s not a surprise.

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And you know, the really sad thing is that in the UK, a heck
of a lot of teachers have only had one job, which is being
teachers and, and the route which they’ve gone through tends
to be doing okay at school, not necessarily brilliant, a
few have done brilliantly, but the vast majority is done.

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Okay.

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Not so badly.

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They’ve been thrown.

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Then they’ve gone to university and okay.

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University and they’re done O K at
university, and then they become teachers.

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And so, you know, whilst they were at university, their
knowledge of the world grew and as they have become
teachers and the longer they spend in teaching, the
more their currency of the world starts decreased.

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And, you know, a lot of teachers
just coordinate and meet teachers.

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A lot of teachers are married to teachers.

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So the whole bubble of this peculiar teaching
fraternity gets stronger and stronger as a bubble.

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Um, and I don’t think there’s enough permeation
between teachers and everybody else in the.

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And so actually, if I can keep going for a little
bit longer, the reality is in my country, we have,
what is population of about 65 million people.

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And we have about 700,000 people who are engaged
in the world of education, which is just over 1%.

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And that 1% are responsible for teaching and training all
the young people to enter this community of the other 99%.

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When you think about it, that’s a bit crazy, isn’t it?

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Well, I personally think it is.

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I mean, that’s a, they are responsible for
the future people in the country and society.

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Yeah, they are indeed.

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And it would be, it’d be quite nice if
they were more representative of society.

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And the dreadful thing in my country is that in the state
school system, one has to be a qualified teacher to teach.

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But in the private sector, no
such qualifications are needed.

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So arguably there is a wider breadth
of education in the private sector than
there is necessarily in the state sector.

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That doesn’t mean there are some outliers,
but the generality generality of it is that
too often, kids are taught by teachers.

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And unless they’re in a environment where they have
a wide range of opportunities being given to them,
They may gradually close themselves down and think
that examinations are the absolute be all and end all.

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Or if they don’t think they can do very well,
they can actually say, well, there’s a little
hope for me, which is a terrible waste of time.

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So Andy, what exactly do you do in that field or
which I guess it’s various things that you are doing?

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Yeah, I mean, it sounds, you know, it sounds a bit
simple, but like many others I’ll go into a school
and give a keynote about opportunities in the world
and all the usual sort of things which people do.

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But then the, the, the major interventions
which I’ve had is when I’ve taken students.

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To meet with just ordinary people, you know, to meet
with people who are running their own organizations, who
are working in big organizations are working in small
organizations, just so the students can meet other people.

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But I discovered that, you know, the world of education
students, if you take a bunch of students to meet some.

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They tend to sit there and expect this person to teach them.

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And I say, look, you’ve got to ask them questions.

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You’ve got to find out.

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And I also discovered that a lot of students
don’t know how to do that because in schools,
certainly my country’s students, aren’t
really encouraged to ask too many questions.

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It’s sort of like challenging the teacher,
you know, so very, very seldom to students.

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I say, you know, what do you do outside of school?

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What is your background?

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What have you done before?

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If you weren’t being a teacher, what would you do?

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They don’t ask those sorts of questions.

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So they don’t really know their teachers very well.

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They know their teachers as somebody who teaches maths
and they don’t assume that their math teacher has an
interest in music or once upon a time was a great artist.

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And they just decided to be a math teacher.

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They just don’t know.

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So there’s an awful lot of people in schools.

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Who’ve got fantastic talents,
but they’ve harnessed themselves.

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They’ve confined themselves into subject areas.

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So to digress, if I take a bunch of students to meet.

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I discovered that a dozen students is about right.

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Because most people say I’ll bring a
hundred students to go, whoa, forget it.

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And if I just take students to meet one person
or two people in one organization, students tend
to think, oh gosh, that is how business works.

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So I go to four or five on the
same day or completely different.

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And then students go, gosh, there’s no right or wrong way.

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Is there there’s no definitive, this is how you should be.

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And what’s fascinating is when you take students to
meet a professional accountant or then go into, meet
a dancer on the stage, and then you go and have lunch
with a great restaurant and then maybe go to a hotel to
see how they, how the hotelier operates and then maybe
go to a tech company and meet somebody in real tech.

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What students discover is that there’s a
combination of the knowledge, which you have.

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But your ability to converse with people, the,
the soft skill, the so-called soft skills,
which are really hard to get examined in and
get marks for other things which are critical.

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It’s a combination, it’s you as a person, your ability
to communicate your ability to make things happen, your
ability to use the knowledge which you’ve got, which makes
you into a, into a great individual and not just your
ability to pass an exam or to, or to talk about an exam.

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And so, sadly, Necessarily in the academic system
value those soft skills as much as maybe we should,
we don’t have an exam in being a nice person.

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We don’t have an exam in being able to encourage
others to do great things for themselves.

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We don’t have an exam in creativity, and these
are all the things which, you know, those
are the key skills for success later on in.

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As well as the ability to use the knowledge you’ve got
and just have knowledge, we don’t know how to use it.

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I don’t know if there’s much, much use in that knowledge,
which you’ve got, unless you’re very lucky and find
somebody who can exploit the knowledge, which you have.

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So that’s roughly what I do.

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And then, you know, the really great thing is to get
the students to share that knowledge with others,
because then they realize that actually yeah.

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You know, they become more confident.

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They, they start realizing they started valuing the skills,
which they’ve gotten the knowledge, which they’ve got.

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And once people start valuing themselves and valuing the
knowledge, they’ve got, they become more competent in.

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And, you know, I think, I think more students
should have the skills and the aspirations
or the confidence about themselves.

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That’s what I do.

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And please tell us, why do you do, why do you do that?

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Why do you do what you do?

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Hmm.

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Well, I suppose it goes back.

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I had a difficult childhood.

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My father was violent, man.

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My mother was very small.

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Beat my mum and me for no necessary reason.

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And I got, I got saved by my grandmother.

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That’s my father’s mother who took me to live with her and
my mother who got brain damaged in some of the attacks.

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And, and through my time at school,
I, I sort of had these two lives.

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I had one life where I pretended that
everything at home was really lovely.

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And outside.

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I was sort of, gosh, you know, what is going to happen?

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But because we had no money, I realized
I’ve got to do everything myself.

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And I think I was lucky, actually.

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I think that was probably the thing.

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Some of my friends were very complacent.

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They live in nice homes.

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They live with great families.

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And so they didn’t really do very much me.

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I didn’t.

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So I had to, and I think that, I think that helped me.

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And then I started recognizing that a lot of people who’ve
got a huge amount of talent and just don’t realize it.

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So some of the years later, When I’m a chartered
accountant, which is entirely an accident where I became
one and then I became director of recruitment for affirm.

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And I was going around seeing meeting students
who wanted to be recruited into, into our.

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I’m just big firm.

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And I realized that there are some students who are
supremely well-qualified pizazz, do them, and others
have got loads of possess, but they don’t have the
qualifications to get through the recruitment process.

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And I think this is just crazy.

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Um, so let’s see if I can solve those, those few things.

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And then, then I joined the sort of the corporate
world from a world of the big accounting firms.

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Um, and students were inviting me
to go to their countries and talk.

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Um, uh, I discovered that a lot of students like to like
to hear those words and, and like to be challenged because
they also realize that soft skills are important and they
also realize that maybe they need to spend a bit more time
working out what they can do with the knowledge they’ve got.

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And then, and then some years later, Quite recently.

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Well, seven years ago I had an, I had a stroke.

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I, funnily enough, I was at a conference, which I opened
the conference and I was going to do the closing keynote
at the conference and over lunch, I had had a stroke.

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And so I went back into the room to deliver my
closing keynote and I couldn’t talk properly.

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And I was fortunately, the organizer sort of said,
gosh, Marcus, that’s something really badly wrong.

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And in hospital, I had a stroke.

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I had a brain hemorrhage, which is
blood just has got nowhere to go.

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And so it just fills up your
brain and it actually squishes it.

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And, and in my time at hospital, so I
had to learn how to walk and talk again.

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Well, talk sensibly.

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A lot of people were saying, oh, a lot of people in his
condition maker, near normal recovery in about a year.

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And I was thinking, God, I, yeah.

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You know, I wake up a long time and I’m, I’ve been asked
to do the opening keynote for the national association of
head teachers in 14 days time, I’m not going to cancel it.

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I just have to work out how am I going to do it?

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And a lot of medical professionals were
saying, well, it’s just not possible in it.

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Forget it.

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So, so I realized a lot of medical
professionals have never had a stroke.

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They’ve they’ve observed other people with
strokes and everything, which their board
would, they basing their assessment on.

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How long will it take for me to recover
is based upon what other people have.

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And do you know, we’ve already been to
gets told it takes a year to recover.

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They go, oh, I was like, see, yeah.

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Then I’ll just sign off for a year.

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No, I’m not going to sign up for a whole year.

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I’m going to, if I’m going to see what I can do.

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And do you know what was really interesting is that, is
that the meetings I was having with the consultants, we were
getting more and more trainee doctors into the audience.

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And it was almost like a training session,
I think, because I’m reasonably articulate
and I could describe what it was like.

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And so, yeah, of course I gave the opening keynote from
national association head teachers 14 days later, but my
goodness, it was a little bit of a struggle and just the.

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Basic things.

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So we have in my country, we have paper tickets and we have,
you know, RFID card, you know, proximity readers, and the
previous day or during the test, I’d used a paper ticket.

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And so I then tried to push this car into the
paper ticket and I had to just all my paradigms.

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And I was colorblind that I couldn’t talk properly.

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And I, I lost my ability to do
really quick mental arithmetic.

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Some of it’s come back, I’ve got some workarounds.

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My eyes are all over the place, but I delivered
the keynote and it was only the end of it.

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I said, look, I’m sorry if it wasn’t very good.

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I don’t know.

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Sorry if it wasn’t very good.

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You know, I had a stroke four weeks ago and then 14
days ago they went, wow, my goodness place erupted.

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And then they asked me to do it again.

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And then about a month later, it was a heck of a lot better.

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So I think.

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But I think that I th I think when I was in hospital, a
lot of people just consign themselves to the fact it’s
going to take about a year or about a year and a half.

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And I think that’s what happens in school.

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Some kids get told, you know, you’re not going to be very
successful and they just, well, I won’t be very successful.

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And I think we get very easily.

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Influenced by experts to tell us things.

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And it teaches teachers say you’re not very clever
or experts to say it takes a year to recover.

188
00:15:33,045 –> 00:15:42,095
So it’ll take a year or parents who say, you know,
you’re a waste of space or, or friends who say,
forget education and, you know, go sell drugs.

189
00:15:42,585 –> 00:15:53,435
We got very easily influenced and it’s quite
hard, I think for, I think in our society, Western
society, and I’m talking really about the UK.

190
00:15:54,575 –> 00:15:57,095
A bit about the United States and Australasia.

191
00:15:57,725 –> 00:16:01,505
It’s very easy to start believing this stuff.

192
00:16:02,285 –> 00:16:08,015
And, and, and then, and then we have a world where
people, a lot of people go to work doing a job.

193
00:16:08,015 –> 00:16:10,025
They don’t like, they don’t do it very well.

194
00:16:10,985 –> 00:16:15,305
And they, they do it because they, they want
to explore themselves in their free time.

195
00:16:16,085 –> 00:16:16,445
And maybe.

196
00:16:17,165 –> 00:16:24,305
What would be nice if we could all make use of each
other’s talents and generally make the world a better
place, but certainly live more fulfilling lives.

197
00:16:24,965 –> 00:16:28,895
So, gosh, that sounds almost religious.

198
00:16:28,895 –> 00:16:29,165
Doesn’t it?

199
00:16:29,165 –> 00:16:42,485
I don’t, I don’t mean to, but, um, but I think we all
have a duty to ourselves and to each other to make
the most of our talents, because the one given is that
we’re, we’re only here for a limited amount of time
in this space and time and let’s make the most of it.

200
00:16:42,995 –> 00:16:46,235
And ideally let’s leave some sort of
positive mark of our very existence.

201
00:16:47,765 –> 00:16:51,425
So that’s why I doing it actually is that’s a
hell of a long answer and a terrible ramble.

202
00:16:51,425 –> 00:16:52,415
I’m sorry about that.

203
00:16:52,685 –> 00:16:53,945
But I think that’s it.

204
00:16:54,305 –> 00:16:57,845
So the stroke made it made, uh, it’s sort
of like kickstarted me a little bit more.

205
00:16:58,935 –> 00:17:05,615
So I love working with students who everybody thinks,
I don’t know these, these won’t be successful.

206
00:17:05,615 –> 00:17:06,935
And sometimes they think of themselves.

207
00:17:07,925 –> 00:17:09,425
That’s my long answer to a short.

208
00:17:10,880 –> 00:17:12,320
Thank you for elaborating on that.

209
00:17:12,320 –> 00:17:14,300
It was very, it is very inspiring.

210
00:17:14,390 –> 00:17:20,450
And obviously that, that has a strong connection
to what you do today, the way I perceive it.

211
00:17:21,200 –> 00:17:30,940
And, uh, so we talk a lot about paradigms that exists
now in the education system and not only in the
education system in general, I think as society, what.

212
00:17:34,085 –> 00:17:38,165
So what paradigms do you think, uh, need to be challenged?

213
00:17:38,375 –> 00:17:48,605
And you talked a bit about it, but like really, if you can
name the different things that you really think are key that
need to be challenged and transformed to a better future.

214
00:17:49,385 –> 00:17:52,835
Well, you know, I, I got involved with the.

215
00:17:53,555 –> 00:17:55,085
Ted community by accident.

216
00:17:55,115 –> 00:18:00,725
When I started, I got asked to give a
talk at TEDx in Vilnius some years ago.

217
00:18:01,625 –> 00:18:04,325
And the, I dunno what TEDx was.

218
00:18:04,325 –> 00:18:09,695
And I flew into Vilnius and was met by a couple
of people who whisked me into the auditorium.

219
00:18:09,695 –> 00:18:12,485
And suddenly I realized, gosh,
this is, this is like real thing.

220
00:18:13,325 –> 00:18:19,385
Um, and now I hosted a number of TEDxes and I coach TEDx.

221
00:18:20,660 –> 00:18:26,500
And the one thing which I’ve discovered is that
at the end of the day, People are jolly nice.

222
00:18:26,500 –> 00:18:36,580
And they’ve got lots of great ideas and they
really liked sharing them, but we get very easily
dismissed into this single word of which defines you.

223
00:18:36,890 –> 00:18:43,360
You know, you’re an architect, you’re a
lawyer, you’re a tech person and it’s sort
of like, that’s what you’ve always been.

224
00:18:43,360 –> 00:18:45,070
And that’s where you’re always going to be.

225
00:18:45,790 –> 00:18:56,195
Um, And the more we realize that, that, you know,
there are some scientists who are really great
musicians who were going to be doctors or having
doctors who’ve turned into something else or.

226
00:18:57,725 –> 00:19:02,135
We suddenly were as a terribly terribly fluid,
you know, the fact that I speak English.

227
00:19:02,765 –> 00:19:13,895
Um, but it doesn’t mean that this is me, you know,
maybe if I was brought up in a different country,
this same piece of flesh would be speaking a different
language with, uh, a different cultural field.

228
00:19:14,075 –> 00:19:16,895
So maybe we have to realize that
actually there are lots of cultures.

229
00:19:16,895 –> 00:19:18,395
There are, let’s see what cultures there are.

230
00:19:18,395 –> 00:19:19,715
Let’s see what countries there are.

231
00:19:19,925 –> 00:19:21,185
Let’s see what everything in there is.

232
00:19:22,545 –> 00:19:32,535
And the paradigm, which I, which I, which I
think is crazy is when people start to finding
themselves and they define themselves as Scottish
and the Scottish need to change from the English.

233
00:19:32,535 –> 00:19:39,705
And so we’ll separate, or, you know, I’m,
I’m Belarus Ruth’s and we need to stop all
this stuff with, with what’s going well.

234
00:19:39,705 –> 00:19:49,365
There’s very recently though, is that, that incident of
an aircraft, which was effectively on his way from Athens
to Vilnius in Lithuania, which got diverted into Belarus.

235
00:19:49,725 –> 00:19:50,625
So that at Minsk.

236
00:19:51,830 –> 00:19:58,880
Two guys, one guy and his girlfriend could
be taken on and arrested what is going on.

237
00:19:59,930 –> 00:20:04,910
Um, and, and so, you know, you’re a
journalist, you’re a criminal, come on.

238
00:20:05,150 –> 00:20:12,590
We don’t, we don’t need to define this,
this horrible thing of trying to define
people in single words, I think is crazy.

239
00:20:13,400 –> 00:20:18,020
Um, and because of that, we start
to finding ourselves based around.

240
00:20:18,800 –> 00:20:19,760
You know, I’m an architect.

241
00:20:19,760 –> 00:20:23,750
I can’t possibly even count accountant tour or whatever.

242
00:20:23,750 –> 00:20:30,080
And if you just think about single words, definitions,
we can quite often start assigning a sex to it.

243
00:20:30,710 –> 00:20:31,070
You know?

244
00:20:31,400 –> 00:20:36,020
So I’m a technical tech I’m into
technology and people’s minds again.

245
00:20:36,100 –> 00:20:36,260
Right.

246
00:20:36,260 –> 00:20:37,100
So you must be a guy.

247
00:20:37,130 –> 00:20:37,760
I’m an engineer.

248
00:20:37,790 –> 00:20:38,690
I’m a car mechanic.

249
00:20:38,720 –> 00:20:39,050
All right.

250
00:20:39,050 –> 00:20:40,130
So yeah, you’re a guy.

251
00:20:40,760 –> 00:20:41,740
I’m, I’m a dressmaker.

252
00:20:41,930 –> 00:20:42,620
So you’re a girl.

253
00:20:43,330 –> 00:20:43,730
I’m a cool.

254
00:20:44,615 –> 00:20:44,885
Gosh.

255
00:20:44,885 –> 00:20:45,125
Okay.

256
00:20:45,125 –> 00:20:48,935
So we have male and female chefs, but,
um, are you a chef or a cook cook?

257
00:20:48,935 –> 00:20:49,355
You’re a girl.

258
00:20:49,355 –> 00:20:54,245
And if you’re a chef, oh, maybe you’re a guy
and we have this crazy set of definitions.

259
00:20:54,485 –> 00:20:55,745
I speak so highly our rights.

260
00:20:55,805 –> 00:20:56,435
He must be black.

261
00:20:57,125 –> 00:20:58,055
Um, I speak Arabic.

262
00:20:58,055 –> 00:20:58,355
All right.

263
00:20:58,355 –> 00:21:02,525
So you must be, you must be a
brownish color and, and, and we start.

264
00:21:03,250 –> 00:21:06,100
Crazy set of assessments when we meet people.

265
00:21:06,190 –> 00:21:17,020
And you can see that in my country, when people
apply for jobs and they have names, which people are
assessing immediately, what the person looks like,
are they tall, short male, female, or whatever.

266
00:21:17,230 –> 00:21:23,650
And that definitely defines them and opens up
opportunities or not opportunities, which is crazy.

267
00:21:24,040 –> 00:21:24,970
So my name is Marcus.

268
00:21:25,850 –> 00:21:33,500
People can’t quite work that one out because it is, it
is romantic, but it’s also so, so I get away with it.

269
00:21:33,620 –> 00:21:45,560
But mark also, I’m clearly a guy, but, but people are
very keen to define single word definitions and those
paradigms of the assumptions people make about each other.

270
00:21:46,610 –> 00:21:47,240
My goodness.

271
00:21:47,240 –> 00:21:50,060
It takes time to, to break those mindsets sometimes.

272
00:21:50,390 –> 00:21:51,950
And you know, we do that in second.

273
00:21:53,000 –> 00:21:59,900
So you can be, you can be, I do this with
students sometimes, and I just showed them a
face and say, do you think this is a nice person?

274
00:22:00,440 –> 00:22:04,250
And just on the basis of just a
momentary glance go, I don’t think.

275
00:22:05,285 –> 00:22:08,855
And we do that as we meet people,
we assess people terribly quickly.

276
00:22:09,305 –> 00:22:10,625
We don’t get people to challenge.

277
00:22:10,955 –> 00:22:12,675
What does that work of Harvard university?

278
00:22:12,675 –> 00:22:14,375
It’s seven seconds.

279
00:22:14,765 –> 00:22:15,485
That’s all you’ve got.

280
00:22:15,845 –> 00:22:16,865
Gosh, really?

281
00:22:17,345 –> 00:22:19,235
Oh, we that Quicken judging people.

282
00:22:19,895 –> 00:22:25,155
Um, so I, I, uh, if, if I could change this to
say let’s not be so judgemental about each other.

283
00:22:26,375 –> 00:22:28,565
Try and put people into these crazy boxes.

284
00:22:28,685 –> 00:22:29,345
So you’re Muslim.

285
00:22:29,345 –> 00:22:33,485
So for you it to be a terrorist, what really you’re Irish.

286
00:22:33,485 –> 00:22:34,655
You must be in the IRA.

287
00:22:34,685 –> 00:22:35,735
What really?

288
00:22:36,335 –> 00:22:41,015
You’re Russian, Russian squad, bonkers, bonkers.

289
00:22:41,015 –> 00:22:41,465
Crazy.

290
00:22:43,145 –> 00:22:44,165
Yeah, absolutely.

291
00:22:44,705 –> 00:22:57,965
And my experience is also I, what happens is when
you get confronted with, uh, some, uh, call it
unconscious bias, like this is that in certain
contexts, Sunday, you start to even behave like this.

292
00:22:58,025 –> 00:23:05,945
Although you are not that per person, you get into
this kind of projection where you start to behave
in a certain way, which is not your way of behaving.

293
00:23:05,945 –> 00:23:09,035
Have you had this type of experiences
with the people you’ve worked.

294
00:23:09,800 –> 00:23:10,220
Yes.

295
00:23:10,610 –> 00:23:10,820
Yeah.

296
00:23:11,510 –> 00:23:11,840
Yes.

297
00:23:12,260 –> 00:23:23,900
So kind of my experience experiences that people start
to resignate because often, no matter how they actually
act this projection onto them is so strong that the
people who projected onto them, they won’t let go of it.

298
00:23:23,900 –> 00:23:37,540
And then they’re just like resignate and they act in this
way, you know, so kind of, I mean, it’s not always like
that, but it’s, I’ve seen, I’ve seen this a lot, so it’s,
it’s kind of interesting, you know, it can happen very.

299
00:23:38,600 –> 00:23:40,550
Without, without even realizing it.

300
00:23:40,880 –> 00:23:46,400
I was fascinated in the, with,
um, the firm I was at, it was eye.

301
00:23:46,940 –> 00:23:50,330
So it was big firm of financial advisors
called a million people around the world.

302
00:23:51,380 –> 00:23:55,670
And when you take someone where they first
start, you know, so they’re, they’re new.

303
00:23:55,670 –> 00:23:57,980
They don’t really know how things get done around here.

304
00:23:58,700 –> 00:24:06,800
And if they do a paper for somebody sees senior
and they give it to the senior person, there’s
almost invariably going to be some things.

305
00:24:07,655 –> 00:24:11,285
Which aren’t very good in it almost invariably.

306
00:24:12,125 –> 00:24:17,075
Um, or at least not to the revealers taste, you
know, maybe they’ve used the wrong language.

307
00:24:17,075 –> 00:24:20,195
They use the wrong words, used the
wrong color, you know, silly things.

308
00:24:20,825 –> 00:24:25,175
And then the reviewer will mark it or
do some adjustments and send it back.

309
00:24:26,135 –> 00:24:28,145
And then that person will give it back.

310
00:24:28,775 –> 00:24:40,490
And if, if that hasn’t all been adjusted to the
satisfaction of that, Then, then what happens
is that the junior person, I think, well, this
senior person is going to correct everything.

311
00:24:40,940 –> 00:24:49,550
And the senior person will immediately realize
that this junior person on basis, two bits of
information is not very good at doing stuff.

312
00:24:49,700 –> 00:24:57,530
And that sets that relationship, you know, and, and
that relationship continues for a long, long time.

313
00:24:58,040 –> 00:25:01,490
But just because of the very first thing
which has happened in the very first.

314
00:25:02,585 –> 00:25:04,325
And then they start playing to that.

315
00:25:04,775 –> 00:25:09,935
So therefore in a year’s time, a junior person knows that
the senior person is going to correct everything anyway.

316
00:25:10,085 –> 00:25:13,865
So there’s no point in really going into a super-duper
effort cause they’re going to correct it anyway.

317
00:25:14,765 –> 00:25:22,985
And, uh, and the senior person then realizes they have to
correct it because that whole thing just self-perpetuates
and sometimes they haven’t had the conscience.

318
00:25:24,185 –> 00:25:27,635
I haven’t had the conversation about, so why
don’t you correct it or because you make mistakes.

319
00:25:27,635 –> 00:25:28,805
Well, which mistakes do you not?

320
00:25:28,805 –> 00:25:29,015
Like?

321
00:25:29,015 –> 00:25:29,705
I don’t like that one.

322
00:25:29,705 –> 00:25:31,985
Are you writing green income, prefer you to write in black?

323
00:25:32,915 –> 00:25:34,535
If you just told me I’d changed it.

324
00:25:35,645 –> 00:25:39,455
And I, and I think that goes, that goes in a lot of cases.

325
00:25:39,455 –> 00:25:43,715
You know, it can happen in school the very first day.

326
00:25:44,045 –> 00:25:49,085
If you were late to school on your very
first day and the teacher goes, you’re late.

327
00:25:51,410 –> 00:25:52,910
Yeah, but who cares?

328
00:25:52,910 –> 00:25:55,280
Anyway, it’s only school puff.

329
00:25:55,700 –> 00:25:57,980
You’re the troublemaker and you’ll
be the troublemaker forever.

330
00:25:58,820 –> 00:26:09,890
And all the time people are going to that teacher’s going
to is going to remember that you’re the troublemaker and
they’ll tell their friends and, and the same thing can
happen to you, you know, with your teachers, as a teacher.

331
00:26:09,890 –> 00:26:12,260
And on the first day, they weren’t very nice to you.

332
00:26:12,260 –> 00:26:16,130
For whatever reason, maybe they had a
bad day, you know, they just snapped it.

333
00:26:17,150 –> 00:26:18,560
Then that, then that continues.

334
00:26:19,220 –> 00:26:22,250
And I think that happens everywhere we go.

335
00:26:22,760 –> 00:26:31,970
We, we, we, we, we start building up these mind
pictures, either assumptions, and I sometimes
get people to challenge it themselves, you know?

336
00:26:32,510 –> 00:26:37,790
And I’ll say, have you ever been to a
restaurant and had a meal, which was fabulous?

337
00:26:38,450 –> 00:26:42,080
And you tell your friends, this is a great restaurant.

338
00:26:42,320 –> 00:26:43,040
You should go.

339
00:26:44,105 –> 00:26:55,415
Now that’s based upon the evidence of one wheel
on one day with one team of cooks and chefs, and
then you might go again and the meal is dreadful.

340
00:26:56,585 –> 00:26:58,595
Do you then go in your mind?

341
00:26:58,655 –> 00:26:59,135
Right.

342
00:26:59,735 –> 00:27:04,775
So I went to a bad restaurant, which had a good day.

343
00:27:04,895 –> 00:27:10,115
I got a great meal or is this a great restaurant,
which is something I’ve got a bad day.

344
00:27:11,285 –> 00:27:17,375
The vast majority of people, I think
say, gosh, I wonder what happened.

345
00:27:17,405 –> 00:27:18,605
It’s usually so good.

346
00:27:19,835 –> 00:27:28,265
And then you go again and how many times
do you have to go to that restaurant
before you realize it was a bad restaurant?

347
00:27:28,565 –> 00:27:31,055
And just on your first day, you had a good day.

348
00:27:33,005 –> 00:27:35,525
On the other hand, if you go to a
restaurant, you have a bad meal.

349
00:27:35,645 –> 00:27:36,065
Do you ever go.

350
00:27:37,370 –> 00:27:41,150
So maybe you never realized it was a great
restaurant, just having to have a bad day.

351
00:27:41,420 –> 00:27:43,520
And I think, I think that’s the reality.

352
00:27:43,520 –> 00:27:45,230
It’s very hard for us to break away from.

353
00:27:46,175 –> 00:27:49,085
You know, we, we take a snapshot
decision, we extrapolate it.

354
00:27:49,205 –> 00:27:49,895
That’s what it is.

355
00:27:50,075 –> 00:27:53,585
And it takes a bit of time before we, before we reassess.

356
00:27:53,855 –> 00:27:55,355
So we’re gathering information all the time.

357
00:27:55,355 –> 00:27:58,145
We’re making snap decisions, we’re
putting it into our memory banks.

358
00:27:58,385 –> 00:28:03,725
We were using this as a piece of AI,
which we then apply to everything else.

359
00:28:03,755 –> 00:28:08,105
You know, it’s, it’s a learned mechanism, it’s a
learned experience and it’s a learned response.

360
00:28:08,225 –> 00:28:09,635
And then we apply that same thing.

361
00:28:10,265 –> 00:28:12,185
And so by accident, we have.

362
00:28:13,190 –> 00:28:20,690
A bias, which has developed subconsciously,
but becomes very difficult to get.

363
00:28:21,980 –> 00:28:22,520
Definitely.

364
00:28:23,030 –> 00:28:23,600
Definitely.

365
00:28:23,870 –> 00:28:43,640
I have the experience that I think many people perhaps,
but maybe not so conscious that when you get taught
something in this form, a certain teacher at university
or at school or outside of school and further education,
and this is the first time you get to introduce to
a certain field of topic that this is the standards.

366
00:28:44,600 –> 00:28:48,230
If you like the teacher, if you dislike, then
you will challenge it from the beginning.

367
00:28:48,560 –> 00:28:51,470
But if you like, and trust the
teacher, this is what you will compare.

368
00:28:51,500 –> 00:28:53,870
Everything else with that you learn afterwards.

369
00:28:54,170 –> 00:28:56,060
Even if it’s not right.

370
00:28:56,060 –> 00:28:59,900
Once you taught you not necessarily on purpose
did right it to the right thing, maybe.

371
00:29:00,420 –> 00:29:13,830
Is this, the science it’s based on is outdated, the white,
whatever it is, but I’ve seen that a lot with people on
the very subconscious level that a, it’s not just a first
impression, but it’s also the first, um, it goes deeper.

372
00:29:13,830 –> 00:29:14,820
Like the first teaching.

373
00:29:14,820 –> 00:29:19,800
It’s not like the first, uh, could be something
that you get as an input over many months.

374
00:29:19,830 –> 00:29:23,100
Not only the very first impression
that, of course, obviously as well.

375
00:29:23,790 –> 00:29:29,010
And I find this interesting because there’s never a
guarantee that someone you trust, uh, has the best infant.

376
00:29:30,185 –> 00:29:36,905
You know, you would like to, to believe that
people would trust because they’re trustworthy
people, but still they can be wrong as well.

377
00:29:37,295 –> 00:29:48,305
And I’ve seen that a lot and I’ve seen it in myself that
a actually what I base my paradigms on, there’s always
a, what I’ve learned from people I trusted, which, but
doesn’t mean that it is the right thing necessarily.

378
00:29:48,305 –> 00:29:50,765
So just to add to that.

379
00:29:51,515 –> 00:29:51,815
Yeah.

380
00:29:51,935 –> 00:29:52,655
But it doesn’t mean that.

381
00:29:53,645 –> 00:29:59,075
Dishonest with you exactly mean that they were, you
know, deliberately, it’s just, they didn’t know.

382
00:29:59,105 –> 00:30:00,335
And they did their very best.

383
00:30:00,575 –> 00:30:00,935
Yes.

384
00:30:01,715 –> 00:30:04,625
Um, it’s interesting sometimes.

385
00:30:05,315 –> 00:30:18,095
So for, let’s say I give a lot of presentations
and I’ve discovered my style and my style
is humorous, so it can be serious at times.

386
00:30:19,380 –> 00:30:20,340
And I might alternate.

387
00:30:20,340 –> 00:30:31,800
So if I go serious and people realize that this is
serious, because usually it’s fairly light loose,
but it’s always factual and truthful in every way.

388
00:30:31,800 –> 00:30:38,100
And I’ll never, I’ll never say something, which
isn’t true, which I know to be true as far as I can.

389
00:30:38,880 –> 00:30:45,420
And I remember once being, when I wasn’t too comfortable
with myself, I didn’t know what my style was.

390
00:30:46,790 –> 00:30:52,940
I used to watch these programs of people,
giving amazing lectures, standing in one
place, you know, doing it that I can’t do that.

391
00:30:52,940 –> 00:30:53,720
I’m just no good at it.

392
00:30:54,110 –> 00:31:01,010
And I went on a course on how to present and the
person got two chairs and put them apart from me.

393
00:31:01,010 –> 00:31:07,040
He got me to stand on these two chairs, one
leg over here, one leg over there, which
would force me not to be able to move.

394
00:31:07,040 –> 00:31:10,580
And those are fall off and I was terrible at it.

395
00:31:11,300 –> 00:31:13,400
And they said, if you want to be able to present.

396
00:31:14,390 –> 00:31:15,980
You have to stay in one place.

397
00:31:16,340 –> 00:31:18,200
You mustn’t fiddle with pens.

398
00:31:18,200 –> 00:31:19,670
You mustn’t fiddle with things.

399
00:31:19,910 –> 00:31:23,630
You should keep the same eye contact
and turn and talk to different people.

400
00:31:23,870 –> 00:31:25,310
You should be well-prepared.

401
00:31:25,640 –> 00:31:26,750
You should rehearse it.

402
00:31:26,930 –> 00:31:27,740
You should do everything.

403
00:31:28,130 –> 00:31:30,170
If I tried to do that, it’s terrible.

404
00:31:30,890 –> 00:31:31,700
It just doesn’t.

405
00:31:33,425 –> 00:31:40,685
And so what some person says, this is the
way you should do things actually is this
is the way I’ve discovered works for me.

406
00:31:41,315 –> 00:31:43,985
You have to discover what works for you.

407
00:31:44,765 –> 00:31:47,135
And it’s exactly the same when I was at school.

408
00:31:47,225 –> 00:31:53,435
So I am quite quick with mathematics and images and design.

409
00:31:53,465 –> 00:31:58,595
I’m quite fast, but I don’t know why this is the answer.

410
00:31:58,625 –> 00:32:01,025
I can see the answer, but I can’t tell you what.

411
00:32:01,760 –> 00:32:07,160
Very easily, you know, and at school I
used to be told, you’re just guessing.

412
00:32:07,520 –> 00:32:09,050
You’re just lucky guesses.

413
00:32:09,230 –> 00:32:19,370
You know, you have 99 lucky guesses out
of 99 tasks and it’s the same I’m so I’m
not very good at writing poetry, you know?

414
00:32:19,880 –> 00:32:22,160
So when I write poetry, I have two.

415
00:32:22,850 –> 00:32:28,010
Do it in the conventional way of
step-by-step by step and it’s rubbish.

416
00:32:28,460 –> 00:32:36,380
And some people can take a hundred words and go away for
three minutes and it comes back and it’s beautiful to read.

417
00:32:36,980 –> 00:32:38,540
And they’ll say, why did you do this order?

418
00:32:38,570 –> 00:32:39,020
I don’t know.

419
00:32:41,450 –> 00:32:46,520
So if I try to learn from you how
to do stuff, so it seems right.

420
00:32:49,610 –> 00:32:55,370
But equally, well, I can’t teach
you how I can see numbers and.

421
00:32:56,600 –> 00:32:58,880
Because I don’t quite know how I do it.

422
00:32:59,690 –> 00:33:05,390
So when you force me to have to say
how I did it, I, I find it really hard.

423
00:33:06,260 –> 00:33:10,850
And so, and so I think, I think a lot
of people I’d get caught in all of that.

424
00:33:11,570 –> 00:33:18,740
And the worst thing is, is when you look at somebody who
is excellent and you go, my goodness, they’re so good.

425
00:33:18,740 –> 00:33:19,970
I can never be like that.

426
00:33:20,330 –> 00:33:22,910
And we don’t realize they’ve just gone through a series of.

427
00:33:23,855 –> 00:33:27,635
Of learning things to discover
that this is what works for them.

428
00:33:28,505 –> 00:33:41,225
And maybe if we, if we all realize that we wouldn’t be so
frustrated, you know, my goodness, I think, I think the
world is full of people who watch other people on YouTube
or wherever else and get dissatisfied with themselves.

429
00:33:41,225 –> 00:33:43,805
We found if only I could do that.

430
00:33:44,585 –> 00:33:45,635
Oh, I’m no good at this.

431
00:33:45,635 –> 00:33:46,565
I’m no good at that.

432
00:33:47,135 –> 00:33:48,095
I remember talking to.

433
00:33:49,595 –> 00:33:50,435
Talking to somebody.

434
00:33:50,435 –> 00:33:51,665
And I say, do you play the piano?

435
00:33:51,665 –> 00:33:52,205
And they said, no.

436
00:33:52,295 –> 00:33:53,585
And I said, why not this article?

437
00:33:54,545 –> 00:33:55,355
I said, well, did you try?

438
00:33:55,355 –> 00:33:55,625
Yeah.

439
00:33:55,655 –> 00:33:57,035
I tried learning when I was five.

440
00:33:57,515 –> 00:33:58,025
Couldn’t do it.

441
00:33:58,385 –> 00:33:59,075
Can’t do it now.

442
00:33:59,315 –> 00:34:00,365
And I remember it was crazy.

443
00:34:00,365 –> 00:34:03,305
It comes down to like, well, when you were
five, how big were your fingers visit?

444
00:34:03,425 –> 00:34:05,705
There were little, tiny, tiny little sausage fingers.

445
00:34:05,945 –> 00:34:06,785
I said, how big are they now?

446
00:34:08,405 –> 00:34:09,095
How do you know?

447
00:34:09,965 –> 00:34:21,425
You know, very different, um, mind you, I find it quite
hard to play the piano as well, but, but, but it’s not a
very good example, but I think we’re very, we’re very quick.

448
00:34:22,670 –> 00:34:23,540
The judge ourselves.

449
00:34:23,540 –> 00:34:28,460
We’re very quick to make these, I, you know,
I’m seeing the same old Suffolk and not dying.

450
00:34:28,550 –> 00:34:28,970
I’m sorry.

451
00:34:28,970 –> 00:34:30,020
I’m getting terribly boring.

452
00:34:30,110 –> 00:34:31,520
Oh no, it’s perfect.

453
00:34:31,820 –> 00:34:46,100
I mean, I actually fully agree with you and
I, my, my impression is, and I guess you, you,
you, that’s basically what you also say is that
a judgment kills creativity, judgment, kills
talent judgements, kills the ability to hunt.

454
00:34:47,555 –> 00:35:00,065
And we have a school system in most countries, as far as I’m
aware, that is based on judgment, which is an irony because
it’s the very thing that actually disables the potential of.

455
00:35:01,425 –> 00:35:02,205
This is how I feel.

456
00:35:02,965 –> 00:35:05,445
I guess it’s what we basically, you’re saying as well.

457
00:35:06,105 –> 00:35:09,945
And, and it gets worse because I think we
in prison, people in their own inadequacies.

458
00:35:10,095 –> 00:35:15,915
So I remember the first time I, I
met somebody who, who was this chap.

459
00:35:15,945 –> 00:35:22,575
He was, uh, a very senior manager, very senior
at a really big international organization.

460
00:35:23,685 –> 00:35:25,465
And I said, um, do you.

461
00:35:26,375 –> 00:35:27,605
Do you really like it here?

462
00:35:27,785 –> 00:35:31,835
I see the way I said that indicates
what I was expecting the answer to me.

463
00:35:32,105 –> 00:35:36,455
So then I got here and it clearly said, no, it’s a job.

464
00:35:38,105 –> 00:35:39,875
And I said, what would you prefer to do something else?

465
00:35:39,905 –> 00:35:40,565
Oh yeah.

466
00:35:41,105 –> 00:35:42,035
I said, well, why don’t you?

467
00:35:42,425 –> 00:35:47,555
He said, because in another 15 years I will
qualify for the executive pension scheme.

468
00:35:49,685 –> 00:35:50,635
And I remember thinking.

469
00:35:51,830 –> 00:36:10,910
The years you are going to consign yourself to doing
a job, which doesn’t excite to spending your time,
your, your waking decent hours, doing something you
don’t like because in 15 years time, if you’re still
alive, you will be able to draw an executive pension.

470
00:36:12,140 –> 00:36:14,780
My goodness, that’s terrible.

471
00:36:15,860 –> 00:36:20,420
And I didn’t want to say that to him,
but I think there are a lot of people.

472
00:36:21,275 –> 00:36:28,805
Who just resigned themselves to doing something
they don’t like to waste their lives on the basis
that once they retired, they can do something.

473
00:36:29,975 –> 00:36:36,095
But I don’t know if, if they they’ll
ever be in prison themselves.

474
00:36:36,485 –> 00:36:39,685
And sometimes I meet people who got made redundant.

475
00:36:39,705 –> 00:36:43,385
You know, that company went bust,
they got fired, whatever happened.

476
00:36:44,225 –> 00:36:47,645
And I’ve often I’ve often found them
saying, ah, I got made redundant mess.

477
00:36:47,645 –> 00:36:48,605
Things are going to have to happen to me.

478
00:36:48,605 –> 00:36:49,505
I redesigned my life.

479
00:36:51,125 –> 00:36:58,655
Well, isn’t it sad that you have to wait
until somebody else makes the decision for
you to, for you to make your own decisions?

480
00:36:58,835 –> 00:37:01,895
You know, you have to be denied the
opportunity of continuing to do the job.

481
00:37:01,895 –> 00:37:04,085
You don’t like, God, that’s terrible.

482
00:37:05,615 –> 00:37:06,365
I fully agree.

483
00:37:06,575 –> 00:37:07,235
I fully agree.

484
00:37:07,595 –> 00:37:09,485
And sometimes it has to be from the outside.

485
00:37:09,785 –> 00:37:17,405
Sometimes people just don’t see for a long time
or they don’t have the courage for some reason,
or they feel the confines of whatever it is.

486
00:37:17,435 –> 00:37:25,485
You know, it could be that they have credits running
that there’s some family things, you know, like
people that need to take care of and stuff like that.

487
00:37:26,315 –> 00:37:28,535
So, and then they feel like they are not allowed to.

488
00:37:29,220 –> 00:37:38,820
And then again, I feel like these are the personal paradigms
and dogmas that keep us from basically living, living
the life that is really our life and authentic life.

489
00:37:39,510 –> 00:37:50,010
So there’s often this, these type of things, but also I
like when you said 15 years for some executive pension for
me also, the first thing is like, you’re doing 15 years of.

490
00:37:52,090 –> 00:37:55,240
Prison to maybe one day have this pension.

491
00:37:55,510 –> 00:38:01,030
And as you said, you don’t know, maybe the company
goes bust or whatever else happens, maybe another life.

492
00:38:01,900 –> 00:38:11,020
And it’s just sad because my impression is in a
lot of contexts that the real potential that people
have, I mean, oh, let’s put it a different way.

493
00:38:11,040 –> 00:38:16,630
How, what is the percentage of people who
know what their potential is and live there?

494
00:38:18,245 –> 00:38:24,605
Well, the truthful answer is how will we know
what our potential is until we try everything
and there’s not enough time to try everything.

495
00:38:24,905 –> 00:38:25,415
Exactly.

496
00:38:25,655 –> 00:38:34,835
So generally I think what we all do by accident is what we
think we’re best at is most likely what we are least bad at.

497
00:38:36,305 –> 00:38:38,675
So I do a number of things I’m not very good at that.

498
00:38:38,675 –> 00:38:39,545
I’m not very good at that.

499
00:38:39,545 –> 00:38:40,115
I’m not very great.

500
00:38:40,115 –> 00:38:40,715
I’m good at this.

501
00:38:41,765 –> 00:38:42,475
So that’s what I’m best.

502
00:38:43,565 –> 00:38:43,715
No.

503
00:38:43,725 –> 00:38:49,235
If I try something else, I might find I’m
much better at that than I’m good at this.

504
00:38:51,035 –> 00:39:00,095
And unless I give myself the opportunity of
trying different things and allowing myself
to try different things, I may never discuss.

505
00:39:01,370 –> 00:39:02,330
What I’m best at.

506
00:39:03,440 –> 00:39:07,460
And sometimes it takes other people to
say, but you’re really good at this.

507
00:39:08,930 –> 00:39:10,850
And maybe we just don’t value them enough.

508
00:39:10,850 –> 00:39:13,100
We don’t value the people who are trying to help us enough.

509
00:39:14,360 –> 00:39:23,060
But fundamentally, I believe that the
chances are that what we think we’re best
at is most likely what we are least bad at.

510
00:39:24,350 –> 00:39:27,560
And, uh, when we look at it like
this is what I’m at least bad.

511
00:39:28,325 –> 00:39:37,235
It almost begs the question of, well, what else might
you be better at as opposed to this is what I’m good
at, which is sort of like quite a final statement.

512
00:39:37,955 –> 00:39:39,965
What I’m least bad at is sort of like a continuum.

513
00:39:40,385 –> 00:39:51,635
What I’m best at is ending the conversation, say I’m least
bad at talking to people I’m least bad at entertaining
students in their, where their futures might be.

514
00:39:51,635 –> 00:39:57,245
I’m least bad at helping people to be great speakers
on the Ted stage I’m least bad and hosting today.

515
00:40:00,560 –> 00:40:00,920
Okay.

516
00:40:01,340 –> 00:40:07,520
Well, I mean, one thing that I always like to tell
people is, uh, well, let’s put it another way.

517
00:40:07,520 –> 00:40:23,540
What I realize is that often people, they think
they’re, um, as you said, good, at some certain
thing, and it’s, it’s, it’s at least one thing
that is better, but, uh, What really is often the
talent of people is what is really easy to them.

518
00:40:23,870 –> 00:40:27,800
And they get really annoyed when it’s not easy
for other people, because to them it’s so easy.

519
00:40:28,700 –> 00:40:30,650
And this is why I say, well, it’s your talent.

520
00:40:30,680 –> 00:40:40,190
When you see that it’s really easy for you, but for
no one else and you get annoyed by it, why no one
else sees it or understands it, or does it, then
you can be pretty sure that this is your talent.

521
00:40:40,220 –> 00:40:44,720
And people often associate the talent with
something that is really hard and they’ve mastered.

522
00:40:45,630 –> 00:40:50,820
Could also the town big could be involved in that,
but talent is really what is really easy to ask.

523
00:40:50,820 –> 00:40:55,800
Not really hard to us, you know, and then we
might have mastered it, so perfectionist it.

524
00:40:55,810 –> 00:40:56,040
Okay.

525
00:40:56,040 –> 00:41:07,980
That’s a different thing, you know, so yeah, that’s,
that’s a, that’s quite, quite interesting to see like,
uh, I often see it in other people that they actually,
they, they don’t realize it all, what their talents are.

526
00:41:08,310 –> 00:41:12,420
So I am perhaps also myself and including
ourselves, do you know, what’s even worse than.

527
00:41:13,430 –> 00:41:14,900
Sorry, it’s not even worse.

528
00:41:14,900 –> 00:41:16,100
I think they’re limited to things like that.

529
00:41:17,360 –> 00:41:28,970
Quite often, when people are really good at
something and they have that natural, they have that
talent, whether it’s natural or it’s developed or
homes or wherever, they ended up with that talent.

530
00:41:29,810 –> 00:41:36,110
And they’re with people who find it impossible to
do that, rather than think, gosh, that’s my team.

531
00:41:37,175 –> 00:41:39,485
They might be tempted to think those people are stupid.

532
00:41:40,985 –> 00:41:41,375
Exactly.

533
00:41:41,585 –> 00:41:41,675
Yeah.

534
00:41:41,675 –> 00:41:42,365
This is what I mean.

535
00:41:42,395 –> 00:41:43,205
Yeah, exactly.

536
00:41:45,065 –> 00:41:48,515
And so recognizing my skillset, exactly.

537
00:41:48,875 –> 00:41:56,765
It is actually recognizing the deficiencies and
other people against my skillset, which may not be
the right thing to say is that you’re just stupid.

538
00:41:56,765 –> 00:41:57,815
Everybody is stupid.

539
00:42:02,620 –> 00:42:07,840
So, how do you think that the grownup endemic,
what impact does it have on education?

540
00:42:08,500 –> 00:42:20,710
Because there’s definitely changes that we’ll
have in all different areas and also how it
has a education has been treated now with the
pandemic, with home schooling and everything.

541
00:42:21,190 –> 00:42:24,520
So what do you see emerging through the.

542
00:42:26,795 –> 00:42:52,115
Well, I think, I think the pandemic is potential has
the potential for making a bit of a structural change
in the way we operate until now close proximity of
people on, in an office in the fitter, in a, in an
aircraft in a school was necessary in order to have
good communication for people to be able to learn from
each other and discover and share a great expense.

543
00:42:54,425 –> 00:43:02,605
And that’s why we started to building big offices and people
left their homes and spend time to get to their office
and go to work because that’s where their people around.

544
00:43:02,605 –> 00:43:03,665
And that’s where I can work best.

545
00:43:04,835 –> 00:43:11,435
That’s why we took kids from their homes
and group them together in places called
schools so that we could teach them better.

546
00:43:13,205 –> 00:43:20,765
I think we’re now discovering that sometimes
I work better from home and I remember.

547
00:43:21,680 –> 00:43:27,710
I remember in the early days when people would
say to me, I think I’m going to work from home.

548
00:43:28,610 –> 00:43:34,820
My natural thought process was
taking the day off sort of thing.

549
00:43:36,680 –> 00:43:39,620
Cause we didn’t have the technology
at home to be able to continue work.

550
00:43:39,650 –> 00:43:50,360
We, you know, working those home and work, there was home
and school and the divider was probably access to resources.

551
00:43:51,200 –> 00:43:53,360
So the office is where I’ve got resources.

552
00:43:53,360 –> 00:43:56,780
Other people, technology school is where I got resources.

553
00:43:57,350 –> 00:44:02,480
Well, what the pandemic has done, it’s highlighted
the fact that we have transferable resources.

554
00:44:03,200 –> 00:44:05,270
So I’m at home in Wimbledon.

555
00:44:05,540 –> 00:44:07,550
I’m talking to you in Vienna.

556
00:44:07,910 –> 00:44:16,190
We are on a screen, we’re having a conversation
and, and I didn’t need to spend the time to go to
Vienna to have this short conversation with you.

557
00:44:16,610 –> 00:44:19,310
Now I can see.

558
00:44:20,360 –> 00:44:24,200
And I can, I know, I know how you are because we’ve met.

559
00:44:24,740 –> 00:44:43,820
If we haven’t met, maybe this wouldn’t be so such
a good, a good discussion, but what the pandemic
has done in the world of education, it’s sort of
demonstrated that you can learn from home without
having to be in school and you can learn stuff.

560
00:44:44,390 –> 00:44:45,560
Can you feel this?

561
00:44:46,685 –> 00:44:48,995
Can you, can you get the soft skills?

562
00:44:48,995 –> 00:45:12,005
Can, can you, so for students to, to, for young people to
live in the world where accumulating people together as
really important as a shared experiences, and we separate
that we are potentially growing individual people who
develop themselves in isolation of this community type.

563
00:45:13,490 –> 00:45:14,600
Because it’s on the screen.

564
00:45:15,230 –> 00:45:17,930
I don’t know what the ultimate impact is going to be.

565
00:45:18,410 –> 00:45:21,320
When we go back into, we go back.

566
00:45:21,350 –> 00:45:38,330
If we go back into more communal activities, I don’t think
we’ve yet discovered that, but I can already see in my
country when schools reopen there have been a lot of parents
and a lot of students actually, who have been nervous
about going back to school because of the proximity of
other people, because of the potential of catching Corona.

567
00:45:40,630 –> 00:45:46,840
And so even though one’s saying it’s perfectly safe, Erie’s
been been immunized and they’ve all had their inoculations.

568
00:45:48,070 –> 00:45:56,230
I think there’s something here which is saying,
oh, I don’t know if I trust that because you
know, maybe I’ve been vaccinated against a
virus, but maybe there’s another one coming out.

569
00:45:56,920 –> 00:46:04,220
So we’ve got a, we’ve potentially done
something very damaging to young people.

570
00:46:05,150 –> 00:46:11,180
Where they are missing out on the development
of the social skills, which are necessary.

571
00:46:11,180 –> 00:46:12,110
And how do you talk?

572
00:46:12,110 –> 00:46:19,670
How do you communicate with people who at first
sight, you don’t, you don’t think you’re like, you
know, that judgmental thing and it’s, it’s in school.

573
00:46:19,670 –> 00:46:37,795
We have rich people and poor people and yellow people and
black people and put them all together as we grow that
multicultural multi-age, although within limitations of
ages, you know, approach to life, if we start segregating
people by putting our own screen, Maybe we’re missing that.

574
00:46:38,185 –> 00:46:45,685
And, and as we are doing more and more on screen,
we can’t see how big you are, how tall you are.

575
00:46:45,985 –> 00:46:46,585
We don’t know.

576
00:46:46,585 –> 00:46:54,775
Cause everybody’s sort of like the same sort of size,
which is roughly a head and shoulders, which fits
into the confines of the, of the box, which I’m in.

577
00:46:54,775 –> 00:46:55,345
So I don’t know.

578
00:46:56,285 –> 00:47:00,525
So I think, I think with students, with
young people, I know there’s formative ages.

579
00:47:00,525 –> 00:47:07,875
I think it’s the five, six and seven years
old, which I’m more concerned about twos to
fours, which are much more well to support.

580
00:47:07,895 –> 00:47:08,495
Aren’t doing so much.

581
00:47:09,545 –> 00:47:12,245
I’m much less concerned about 16, 17, 18 year olds.

582
00:47:14,105 –> 00:47:24,545
Um, but the other thing, um, in the world of education
is that, is that students aren’t in, in, in, in, in
our schools that students aren’t getting exposure to.

583
00:47:25,490 –> 00:47:37,940
The sort of the world of people outside on a, at an, at a
really seriously intellectual type level, you know, we, we
have things called work experience where, where students
go out to places work and do something that’s all stopped.

584
00:47:38,210 –> 00:47:40,310
So it’s virtual, it’s not the same, you know?

585
00:47:41,090 –> 00:47:46,010
Um, so I think, I think potentially we
have a slightly damaged grouping of people.

586
00:47:46,130 –> 00:48:04,280
The COVID, the COVID kids, um, Yeah, I think, I think it may
have more lasting effects than we think we’ve got a slight
growth of mental health issues in there in our country,
primarily because of the lack of socialization, I guess.

587
00:48:05,690 –> 00:48:06,410
Well, definitely.

588
00:48:06,410 –> 00:48:22,280
I mean, there’s, um, there’s a study in Austria showing
the numbers really high that the teenagers, I think, uh, 14
and above, like the, the, the percentage of teenagers that
think of suicide has risen enormously over the last year.

589
00:48:23,270 –> 00:48:25,400
The number is really, I think, I don’t know.

590
00:48:25,790 –> 00:48:29,450
I don’t want to say something
wrong, but I think it’s around 20%.

591
00:48:30,305 –> 00:48:31,235
Well, 30%.

592
00:48:31,805 –> 00:48:38,975
I mean, not that they are seriously suicidal,
but they, they actually having thoughts,
which has been before much, much lower.

593
00:48:39,665 –> 00:48:51,755
And also when I think I’ve a 21 month old a girl and I
mean, definitely she doesn’t have the social exposure that
she would have had if she would have gone to kindergarten.

594
00:48:51,905 –> 00:48:52,175
You know?

595
00:48:52,235 –> 00:48:53,165
So, yeah.

596
00:48:53,255 –> 00:48:56,795
So it’s a, that’s something that
I’m thinking about lots because.

597
00:48:58,235 –> 00:49:10,025
It will be the COVID generation, the little
kids, um, that will have a very different type
of social interaction that we are used to because
we were just used to in this crucial times over.

598
00:49:10,730 –> 00:49:22,100
Personal development, um, to have socially much
more social in real life, social interaction
and, uh, for some even social interaction at
all, other than to the parents, for example.

599
00:49:22,760 –> 00:49:30,100
So let’s see what happens, but like in every situation
there’s always also upsides to two situations.

600
00:49:30,100 –> 00:49:38,150
So we’ll be very interesting to see in 20 years
from now how we will look back at this whole
situation and what has developed out of it.

601
00:49:40,520 –> 00:49:42,290
Yeah, it’ll be, there’ll be fascinating.

602
00:49:42,680 –> 00:49:44,750
What’s going to be really fascinating in 20 years.

603
00:49:44,750 –> 00:49:51,890
Time is when you and your daughter are talking
to young kids, they’re saying, whoa, look down.

604
00:49:52,310 –> 00:49:52,910
What is that?

605
00:49:52,940 –> 00:49:54,410
Oh, I’ve read about that in the books.

606
00:49:57,480 –> 00:49:57,900
Definitely.

607
00:49:57,900 –> 00:49:59,390
We live at the generation.

608
00:50:00,050 –> 00:50:03,110
I mean, this is, uh, extraordinary times.

609
00:50:06,710 –> 00:50:21,410
But when we go now a hundred years into the future, when
you tell about yourself a hundred years from now into the
future, and people talk about you and think about you,
how would you want to be remembered 100 years from now?

610
00:50:25,240 –> 00:50:25,390
Oh,

611
00:50:33,450 –> 00:50:40,860
I would like to say that people thought I was
a good guy who helped a lot of other people
and maybe help some people discover themselves.

612
00:50:43,140 –> 00:50:46,625
Um, Yeah, that sort of thing.

613
00:50:47,825 –> 00:50:48,425
That’s what I think.

614
00:50:49,535 –> 00:50:49,955
Great.

615
00:50:50,195 –> 00:50:51,065
Thank you very much.

616
00:50:51,125 –> 00:50:53,375
I’m pretty sure this will happen, Marcus.

617
00:50:54,755 –> 00:50:55,625
If I die sooner.

618
00:50:59,375 –> 00:51:06,455
Thank you very much for this beautiful
conversation and thank you for inviting me onto it.

619
00:51:06,635 –> 00:51:11,285
And thank you very much and hope
to see you again on my show.

620
00:51:11,645 –> 00:51:12,845
Bye-bye thank you.

621
00:51:12,905 –> 00:51:13,265
Goodbye.