This is an auto-transcription. Please excuse mistakes.

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Welcome to challenging paradigm x.

isn’t necessarily
to connect the worlds of spirituality and business
is spirituality all about religion or consciousness.

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And what role does purpose play in all of that?

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My guest today is Kat Kugler.

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She’s an independent business strategists, entrepreneur
and podcast host, who has worked for many years in
the corporate world and has changed her path to become
an entrepreneur with a strong spiritual foundation.

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In 2020, she has founded human plus a global
platform to support game-changing entrepreneurs
and leaders in their purpose journey to
maximize the impact on the world and humanity.

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She’s also the host of the Insync podcast, exploring
various tools and ideas rooted in spirituality and
science to create better ways to work and live.

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So if you’re interested in the topic of
spirituality in business, Stay tuned.

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Hi, I’m here today with cat Cougar, cat.

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It’s great to have you here, please introduce yourself.

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Who are you and what do you do?

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thanks for having me.

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I’m very, very happy and pleased to be here.

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And speaking with you today.

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Who am I?

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And what do I do?

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I love that you asked that question.

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Uh, I thought about it before.

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I like to ask that question as well.

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Cause I think there’s really two ways that you can answer
that, on a professional level and, you know, putting
some labels on me that people can put in a box and then.

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More of my true essence.

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So I will share both because people connect
with different things on a professional.

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Boxy speaking level.

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I am a strategy consultant and entrepreneur.

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I used to work for Deloitte in my corporate past
before I joined, uh, before I turned entrepreneur.

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And so I do some freelance consulting still.

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And, uh, the other part, and that is really
what fulfills me is, um, my, to your status.

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Projects, whatever you want to call, call it.

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which is human plus a platform for all things,
conscious entrepreneurship and leadership.

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And my podcast, the in-sync podcast, where we
focus on connecting spirituality with business.

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So that’s my professional label setup.

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Self but then really?

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Who am I?

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First of all, I think also that’s a question
that we all ask ourselves that I don’t,
I’m not sure we’ll ever have an answer to.

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Except, you know, we are all consciousness,
but what makes me me in this lifetime?

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Um, I think I’m very introverted person.

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but I like to connect deeply.

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I like to have very deep, meaningful conversations.

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Um, I really suck at small talk.

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So, I’m, I’m not somebody who goes to
parties and like has small talks with like
20 people or so I’m not interested in that.

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That actually takes a lot of my energy.

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So I prefer to have a smaller circle
of people that I’m very close to.

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I.

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I like my top values are freedom and
independence, and I think that’s, uh, you
can really see us in all aspects of my life.

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I need to know that I’m free and then I will be
close to people and to things and to situations.

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What else?

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Right now I live in, um, in Africa.

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In Portugal right by the beach where I ha it’s ideally Kia.

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I meditate a lot.

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I meditate for about two hours a day.

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Um, so again, that can vary in inward.

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And then, but when I do, when I do go out, like then
I bring a lot of energy and, I love to do things.

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I am very active as well.

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I’m I’m a runner.

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Yeah.

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I’m many things for many people.

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interesting, like the topic of spirituality and
business, I find Also because people always used
to ask me that, how do I connect these two worlds?

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And for me it was, uh, actually there was no,
not necessarily, a gap between those two worlds.

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Uh, but I I’d be quite interested in your perspective.

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Oh, how, how how’s it possible to connect spirituality
with, business or what’s what’s what’s the sweet spot
or where’s the connections from your perspective?

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I think right now in the world, it’s not very connected.

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At all, like there’s, there’s a lot of
unconsciousness, everywhere in the world,
but particularly in the business world.

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And, uh, also the concept of work-life balance
really underpins that because that basically says
that you have, uh, you have walk and then you have.

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So both of them are very separate.

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So you can be a spirit.

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You can, I can do all of your spiritual stuff in
your life, but you cannot really do it at walk.

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And there’s a separation of off, who
you are in those different environments.

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So it is right now, it is not very connected.

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of course there’s always people, um, like lot
of, lots of people are in, in the, into the
world of spirituality and personal growth, but.

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It’s not, they can’t really bring that
authentically into the work environment.

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Which is exactly where I see.

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Such a big gap to be bridged.

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And that’s what I’m hoping to, to close or to at least
narrow a little bit with the walk that I do by, as I said
what human plaster is a platform, an ecosystem for conscious
entrepreneurs and leaders and help them to remember
who they are and help them find back to their purpose.

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So they can be more authentic
at walk, therefore, closing the.

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Because as a leader is more authentic that
allows your people to be more authentic.

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And similarly to with my podcast where I talk
a lot about how people have done these things
have used spirituality to build massive.

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In the real world or share tools and techniques
that can help people to, you know, walk better,
be more productive, be more peaceful, all of this.

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So to answer your question right now, it’s not
connected and that’s exactly what I’m trying to change.

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Okay, great.

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Maybe to clarify, I didn’t mean it’s that there
is a lot of spirituality in business, but what I
meant was for me there is we are talking about.

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So spirituality is part of life
and business as part of life.

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So of course, there’s this gap that you say, but people
said, how can you do spiritual work and do consulting?

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This is it’s, it’s an opposite.

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yes, in this true, we need corporate social response.

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Always say that we need corporate social

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responsibility, I mean, it implies
the corporations, uh, antisocial.

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And, uh, this is also how I perceive
how our economic system works.

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So of course here there is a major gap.

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But I was always stunned when people found it surprising
that I’m doing spiritual work and I’m doing consulting.

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I said, yeah, I mean, this is just in your heads
that you either do consulting or spiritual work.

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So from this perspective, I
actually see exactly the way you do.

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And I think over the last 10 years, a lot has changed.

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There’s a lot of awareness now for the different aspects of.

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Things that are connected to the inner self,
the higher self, whatever you want to call it.

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I think also through the pandemic, a lot of people started
to realize that, there there’s something else also important
other than just business, uh, And just functioning.

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Exactly.

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So, but, so just to clarify that we actually on
the same page I wonder maybe could you give us a
definition or your perception of what spirituality is?

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Because I think it’s a word that many
people use in very different ways.

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So we know like how you would define it for us.

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Yeah.

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I think even a lot of people are being very taken
aback by the world of spirituality because they
are associated with, I don’t know, religion.

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some.

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Yeah, I don’t know the word, but like a clan or so, you
know, for me, spirituality is simply a way a way of living.

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It includes tools and techniques that let you
experience higher levels of consciousness.

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So for example, one tool could be meditation.

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I’m a very big meditation fan.

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That gets you onto a different level
of consciousness, uh, that literally.

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Your or changes the frequency in your brain.

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and your vibration, or breath walk does has the same effect
or yoga, anything that gets you into, into an altered
state of consciousness, and that transcends you from purely
just smelling, uh, seeing, and, uh, that our five senses.

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I’m not going to call them out now, but anything that
lets you perceive more of the world that is not visible.

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Just buy with your eyes and there’s so much around you.

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Um, we are, we are just energy.

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We are energy in our heaviest densest form.

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and, uh, and you know, people think,
oh, there’s only, oh, I see my hand.

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Okay.

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So then my hand must be real.

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So I don’t see anything else, but it doesn’t
mean that there is no nothing around us.

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There’s infinite possibilities in infinite information
available in the quantum field that is everywhere
and spirituality in my view is just a tool.

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To be able to access that you could
call it also consciousness work.

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So for me, it had, it doesn’t
have anything to do with religion.

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In fact, I come from a very anti
religious, uh, uh, background.

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Um, so I don’t, I have nothing to
do, you know, I’m not planning.

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I was never planning in getting any anywhere there anyway.

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So, um, for me, it has nothing to do with religion.

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And, please tell us why do you do what you do now?

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Well, there’s, there’s no short answer to that.

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We have done.

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okay.

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So essentially, I said it in my intro already.

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I, um, I used to be a management consultant.

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I was very conditioned when I
grew up, to follow a certain path.

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So, my PA my parents were both in the corporate world.

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You know, we, we always had enough
money, but also not like crazy wealth.

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Um, so it was always that, okay, you get a good education.

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We want you to have a good education,
which is very important to them.

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And then you go study, sorry.

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And then you find a job in the corporate world.

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And, uh, and then, you know, and then
you have your box and then that’s it.

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And that is where life ends.

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And then maybe you want to have children.

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Maybe you want to get married.

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And that’s, that’s what my
definition of success looked like.

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I didn’t know anything else.

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So that’s the path that I went onto and, um, I
followed it all very, very nicely, I would say.

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Um, although even in my, in my, uh, teenage
years, they were always like, I was a bit of
a rebel because I always felt like, oh, okay.

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Something doesn’t really fit here.

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And, um, I, but I did it anyway.

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And then just before I got into
the fight, I landed my first job.

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I had this calling to iStock meditation.

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And as I said, like, my parents
are not in this world at all.

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This is not how I grew up.

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So it was fairly random.

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To start meditation.

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And there’s always as a universe box, you know, you
get an opportunity, but it’s up to you to take it.

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So there was somebody in my friend circle who said,
I’m going to start a transcendental meditation.

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And, uh, why don’t you come along?

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And it was a cost that costs 500 pounds.

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I was in London at, at that point and
I didn’t have the money for it as well.

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My mom.

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My, my mom then said, okay, I’m going to
pay for it, not knowing what she was doing.

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And it was the best thing that she could have done.

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because it was 500 pounds.

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It was a lot of money for me back then.

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And it, it was enough money for me also to stick through.

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So I didn’t want to just do it and then leave it, you
know, so I was very committed from the first minute on
and transcendental meditation as a technique that a mantra
based technique that you do in the morning, 20 minutes and
in the evening, And little did I know what it would do to
my consciousness in the beginning, it was just, um, helping
me focus, uh, staying more focus, having more energy, you
know, all of these benefits that they try to sell you on
the website that gets people hooked up and try it out.

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But I very quickly started feeling a sense of relief that.

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I almost found home.

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Like something felt very homey to me,
something felt really right to me.

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And I was always like questioning a lot of things, you
know, values, purpose, blah, blah, blah, everyone around
me always felt like what’s happening with this girl.

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You know, why is she thinking about this?

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And basically I think I started my, this is when
reading my consciousness the way I describe it.

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Always, as I said, in a house, it was dark.

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It was light.

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Lights in it, but all the windows were closed.

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And the minute that I started meditation as one window
going up, like after the other and later on doors open,
and then I walked outside, that’s how it felt to me.

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And I still, I stayed in that consulting
environment for, almost five years.

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And I was really good at my job as well, but.

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removed from it in a way I was doing the work.

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I was getting promoted.

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I was climbing the corporate ladder
as everyone else, but I always fought.

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There’s so much unhappiness.

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There’s so much suffering going on here.

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And why are these people?

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So ego-driven and why are they so toxic
and why are they, you know, why do we, they
create all of this drama and stuff, but then
I also didn’t know what was happening as all.

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It was just my meditation bubble, you know?

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And I, and then a few years later, uh, somebody
put the power of now on my, on my desk, at an
investment bank in London, in the middle of
London, this really doesn’t happen very often.

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And I read this book, it was a colleague of mine who
put a Dan said, I think you need to read this book.

187
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And, uh, everything that, uh, katala said in that book.

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Finally life makes sense.

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Finally, there’s somebody here, you know, who gets it.

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And, uh, and then I realized, okay, Uh,
there’s, there seems to be a world out there.

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So I started really seeking, going on my
spiritual journey and reading tons of books and
understanding that there’s a whole world out there.

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so I think that was another mini
awakening or big awakening actually.

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And, uh, that eventually also gave me the courage to resign
from, from Deloitte, because I felt like there’s something.

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There’s some, this environment, I don’t like the way people
speak and this cannot be at basically this cannot be it.

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This cannot be life that needs to be something more.

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And I cannot have big enough impact here.

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So I resigned.

198
00:15:21,970 –> 00:15:24,250
And, uh, but then what happened?

199
00:15:24,730 –> 00:15:29,860
I basically went from one trap just in another trap.

200
00:15:30,370 –> 00:15:32,740
And mind you, the universe really does not give me a break.

201
00:15:32,740 –> 00:15:35,260
Like everything happens for me, like very, very quickly.

202
00:15:35,260 –> 00:15:37,810
You know, other people, they maybe get a few weeks break.

203
00:15:37,810 –> 00:15:39,635
Like for me, Right.

204
00:15:39,665 –> 00:15:40,745
One thing after the other.

205
00:15:41,495 –> 00:15:42,275
And I thought, Okay.

206
00:15:42,305 –> 00:15:46,445
well, I’m just going to be an entrepreneur and
then that’s going to solve all of my problems.

207
00:15:47,405 –> 00:15:50,045
And, uh, that’s what I did.

208
00:15:50,045 –> 00:15:56,962
I started, uh, co-founded a company in
Singapore, which was an e-commerce company and I.

209
00:15:57,832 –> 00:15:59,182
Very quickly realized.

210
00:15:59,182 –> 00:16:04,492
And this is when my intuition started very,
very clearly communicating to me and my guides.

211
00:16:04,522 –> 00:16:07,732
And, I had, I already knew where this was going.

212
00:16:08,112 –> 00:16:09,282
And I already knew that.

213
00:16:10,587 –> 00:16:11,877
alignment with my purpose.

214
00:16:12,507 –> 00:16:18,087
And I had all of these answers already
within me, but there was something that
was preventing me from actually living it.

215
00:16:18,207 –> 00:16:22,917
I fought, like you said earlier, like how can you
be a spiritual person and how can you do consulting?

216
00:16:23,157 –> 00:16:24,567
So this is how I saw myself.

217
00:16:24,807 –> 00:16:26,007
I can be spiritual.

218
00:16:26,277 –> 00:16:30,890
But I cannot do, this, this,
uh, walk if I really want to be.

219
00:16:31,860 –> 00:16:32,070
Yeah.

220
00:16:32,070 –> 00:16:41,170
if I’m, if I really am a spiritual person, like this is
so much in conflict later on, I realized this is all just
in my head, but anyway I had this perception in my mind.

221
00:16:41,200 –> 00:16:41,530
Oh, okay.

222
00:16:41,530 –> 00:16:51,250
My spiritual side needs to say my spiritual
side and then my business side needs to be my
business side, but I got very, very clear Insights
that that is not what it’s supposed to be.

223
00:16:51,250 –> 00:16:54,850
And, uh, I wrote down in my journal
at some point I need to be stuffed.

224
00:16:54,850 –> 00:16:57,070
I need to be stopped from pursuing the wrong things.

225
00:16:57,530 –> 00:17:01,610
Shortly after the company went down and
shortly after the Corona pandemic hit.

226
00:17:02,060 –> 00:17:07,080
So, you know, what’s a powerful and, uh, I was like, damn.

227
00:17:07,080 –> 00:17:07,980
And I wrote this down.

228
00:17:08,010 –> 00:17:09,000
This is what I called in.

229
00:17:09,030 –> 00:17:10,590
This is the experience that I called in.

230
00:17:10,680 –> 00:17:21,815
And I eventually this, when, when that happened I say this
now a little bit removed because it’s, it’s been some time
and it, I needed to do a lot of work also to release that.

231
00:17:22,295 –> 00:17:28,385
but it was very hard to face the fact that
I had known all of these things inside yet.

232
00:17:28,385 –> 00:17:32,675
I wasn’t acting in alignment with what I knew
to be true and what I knew was my purpose.

233
00:17:33,155 –> 00:17:39,065
But then finally I took the guts to do
it because the feeling now is so strong.

234
00:17:39,125 –> 00:17:50,165
Um, I just know that if I don’t If I don’t bring
this world, this walk into the world, according
to my abilities in this lifetime, I will be in
trouble on the other side, you know, I’ll come back.

235
00:17:50,565 –> 00:17:51,975
And I have to do it all over again.

236
00:17:51,975 –> 00:18:01,035
So I’m yeah, that’s when I really started, I creating
my company’s human plus and in sync and, uh, uh,
and creating from the heart instead of with my mind,

237
00:18:02,272 –> 00:18:18,712
So what I would be really interested in is why do you
think that you ignored what you actually knew intuitively
that it was not the right thing or it would go south
or whatever the action was, but how did it happen?

238
00:18:20,362 –> 00:18:20,872
Hmm.

239
00:18:21,862 –> 00:18:38,922
A lot of self doubt, a lot of fierce and simply
thinking that it wouldn’t be possible because
the world operates as we know more unconsciously
than it’s than it is con conscious and.

240
00:18:40,067 –> 00:18:46,787
I just simply didn’t think that I, that
my contribution could make a difference.

241
00:18:47,247 –> 00:18:49,947
Why did I think that you’re not good enough?

242
00:18:50,757 –> 00:18:52,107
All of this, all of this.

243
00:18:54,137 –> 00:18:58,547
This crazy limiting beliefs that I carry from my childhood.

244
00:18:58,727 –> 00:19:00,467
Things need to be a certain way.

245
00:19:00,647 –> 00:19:03,017
This is on this only one path to success.

246
00:19:03,197 –> 00:19:13,697
I hadn’t seen examples of people who have done it,
um, because I was so in my little path that anything,
every time I had a thought of, oh, I need to do this.

247
00:19:14,417 –> 00:19:18,042
You know, my mind came in and
say, Nah, you’re not good enough.

248
00:19:18,072 –> 00:19:18,342
None.

249
00:19:18,372 –> 00:19:20,262
No, one’s going to listen to you now.

250
00:19:20,262 –> 00:19:21,522
This is not worthwhile.

251
00:19:21,962 –> 00:19:22,862
So Yeah.

252
00:19:22,922 –> 00:19:27,032
that, that is why, and this is why
it took me such a, such a long time.

253
00:19:28,742 –> 00:19:33,362
Well, actually not such, not such a long, long
time, but I feel like it was a long time, you know?

254
00:19:36,619 –> 00:19:41,659
And you talked about your purpose before
this, is it something you’d like to share?

255
00:19:41,659 –> 00:19:44,209
What you feel like your purpose?

256
00:19:44,874 –> 00:19:45,894
Yes, absolutely.

257
00:19:46,104 –> 00:19:51,324
I think purpose always at changes
over, you know, your evolution.

258
00:19:51,554 –> 00:19:52,574
And as you progress.

259
00:19:53,534 –> 00:19:54,514
My general purpose?

260
00:19:54,514 –> 00:19:59,997
has to do with raising consciousness in people,
right now, specifically in the business world.

261
00:20:00,317 –> 00:20:06,977
And like getting people to remember who they truly are
and getting people to remember their personal purpose.

262
00:20:07,357 –> 00:20:14,857
Especially in the business world, we hear a lot of
purpose talk, but that’s usually a company purpose,
or we need to be sustainable, blah, blah, blah.

263
00:20:15,097 –> 00:20:18,967
What people forget is a purpose is actually a threefold.

264
00:20:19,267 –> 00:20:20,407
It’s the present.

265
00:20:21,137 –> 00:20:26,987
Your personal purpose and the company profits,
ideally those three things walk in perfect.

266
00:20:26,987 –> 00:20:29,837
How many together, because that is when life is really easy.

267
00:20:29,837 –> 00:20:34,787
And and, and, and enjoyful, uh, if
they are misaligned, it, it doesn’t.

268
00:20:35,207 –> 00:20:39,107
But this is what I, this is where I see my walk right now.

269
00:20:39,467 –> 00:20:42,544
Helping, people remember who they
are and raising their consciousness.

270
00:20:42,544 –> 00:20:44,774
And I imagine, over the course.

271
00:20:45,414 –> 00:20:49,637
You know my life, that might take
many different forms right now.

272
00:20:49,637 –> 00:20:53,357
It’s manifesting through my
projects, human plus and in sync.

273
00:20:53,807 –> 00:21:01,847
but I am really open to receive and to let
the universe now guide me because when I do
it with my mind, it’s not happening clearly.

274
00:21:03,312 –> 00:21:03,792
Okay.

275
00:21:03,882 –> 00:21:04,242
Great.

276
00:21:04,452 –> 00:21:17,712
So just to clarify for the people who are not so
deep into the topic of purpose, would you like
to explain the differences between in short, only
between present purpose, personal purpose and company?

277
00:21:18,487 –> 00:21:18,877
Yeah.

278
00:21:19,447 –> 00:21:19,867
of course.

279
00:21:19,897 –> 00:21:29,817
The personal Papa’s is essentially what your
soul is, has come, come here in its current
incarnation form to help in, in the world.

280
00:21:29,817 –> 00:21:31,527
And every soul has a purpose.

281
00:21:32,637 –> 00:21:36,837
You P a lot of people are a little
bit intimidated when they hear Papas.

282
00:21:36,837 –> 00:21:42,327
Cause they think, oh my God, I need to be the next
Elon Musk also, um, you know, send people to mosque.

283
00:21:42,627 –> 00:21:45,560
Um, but I don’t feel like I’m that’s, that’s me.

284
00:21:45,950 –> 00:21:51,920
Your purpose could be as simple as spreading
joy in your family or your friends or at work.

285
00:21:51,950 –> 00:21:53,690
It could be that simple.

286
00:21:54,090 –> 00:21:56,260
But everyone knows what their purpose.

287
00:21:56,750 –> 00:22:07,550
If they start to tune in and if they start to
listen, just need to sit down and get into the
state and listen to what come through and what
feels natural to you, what you’re passionate about.

288
00:22:07,900 –> 00:22:12,060
And what at the same time stuff
solves a problem in the world.

289
00:22:12,270 –> 00:22:16,320
And again, this could be as small as I’m just
a happy person and I’m spreading joy, right?

290
00:22:17,490 –> 00:22:18,720
Your present purpose.

291
00:22:20,140 –> 00:22:25,840
are you doing in this very moment that is
in alignment with your personal purpose.

292
00:22:25,840 –> 00:22:28,810
So for example, why my and his interview with.

293
00:22:29,590 –> 00:22:30,880
Why am I sharing all of this?

294
00:22:31,270 –> 00:22:36,940
Because hopefully it will inspire somebody
to go and seek their own personal purpose.

295
00:22:36,970 –> 00:22:37,210
Right.

296
00:22:37,210 –> 00:22:38,710
Which is in alignment with my purpose.

297
00:22:39,430 –> 00:22:49,540
So if I always ask myself, like, what is the purpose or
the intention behind speaking with somebody, if I don’t
know what it is then it’s, it’s just a waste of time.

298
00:22:50,455 –> 00:22:56,162
’cause it’s a, it’s a activity of the Eagle, but
it’s not actually in alignment with, would mean.

299
00:22:56,642 –> 00:22:58,952
And the company purpose is then what.

300
00:23:00,277 –> 00:23:11,237
What you create, um, based on what you know about
your present and on your, personal purpose and
not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur and
not everybody should be an entrepreneur either.

301
00:23:11,624 –> 00:23:14,264
so you don’t have to now think of fuck.

302
00:23:14,264 –> 00:23:18,134
I need to do, uh, you know, I need to create
this company that solves this and that issue.

303
00:23:18,314 –> 00:23:25,334
No, it could also be, you could either
contribute to a company that does something
that feels in alignment with you, but also.

304
00:23:26,204 –> 00:23:31,484
For example, when I worked at Deloitte,
Deloitte, I don’t even know what their
company purpose is and I also don’t care.

305
00:23:31,484 –> 00:23:32,084
I never cared.

306
00:23:32,354 –> 00:23:39,944
But I knew why I was there because I wanted
to acquire some skills and some competencies
and some credibility and all of that.

307
00:23:40,274 –> 00:23:52,994
So even in hindsight now, even though I didn’t
associate with the company purpose, it’s still
stuffed as a way for me to develop what I wanted
to develop at that point, at that current point.

308
00:23:52,994 –> 00:23:58,124
So you could also just join a company because you
liked the team or because you, um, acquire some skills.

309
00:23:58,919 –> 00:24:03,209
And that is how I see that wheel of
personal present and company purpose.

310
00:24:03,209 –> 00:24:07,979
And when they are perfectly aligned, that
is when opportunities come up naturally.

311
00:24:07,979 –> 00:24:14,939
That’s when you know, you get excited when you
don’t feel drained by your walk and that’s when you
just feel very content with everything that you do.

312
00:24:18,099 –> 00:24:24,399
So I’d be really interested to know, because
you talked about, um, awakening moments.

313
00:24:24,399 –> 00:24:33,399
Epiphanes like, what, is there one or more specific moments
that you would say were really turning points in your life?

314
00:24:34,239 –> 00:24:37,539
Or was it like a steady development and, you know,

315
00:24:39,309 –> 00:24:46,449
I think there were moments that were significant,
but generally it was more of a transition for me.

316
00:24:46,449 –> 00:24:49,029
So there’s also two ways of having an awakening either.

317
00:24:49,029 –> 00:24:55,179
There is an event happening that really
shakes you to your core and you wake up
and you just see the world with different.

318
00:24:56,009 –> 00:24:57,869
Um, that happens to a lot of people.

319
00:24:58,019 –> 00:25:10,079
There’s even though, uh, what, for those two scenarios,
which I can’t remember on top of my head now, but
the second one, and I think this is the one that
happened to me is it’s more of a slow transition.

320
00:25:10,269 –> 00:25:12,219
And I’m still in that awakening process.

321
00:25:12,529 –> 00:25:12,919
Like.

322
00:25:13,744 –> 00:25:17,104
Most people, um, that are going to the
Jenny’s and never an imposters anywhere.

323
00:25:17,104 –> 00:25:18,214
There’s always new insights.

324
00:25:18,754 –> 00:25:26,574
But of course there have been moments where I, I
just knew now I need to, now I need to make a change.

325
00:25:26,664 –> 00:25:30,594
For example, when I was in the first example actually is.

326
00:25:31,444 –> 00:25:32,164
Meditation.

327
00:25:32,194 –> 00:25:36,784
When I was called into meditation, I just knew
in my heart, this is something I need to do.

328
00:25:37,024 –> 00:25:40,294
And our story didn’t make sense,
just need to do it very strong.

329
00:25:40,704 –> 00:25:43,254
And, that led me to my first, uh, bigger awakening.

330
00:25:43,524 –> 00:25:53,757
Then there, wasn’t a moment in my, uh, corporate career
where I had a confrontation with somebody and they
said something, that I perceived as disrespectful.

331
00:25:53,757 –> 00:25:55,137
And I just did not want to.

332
00:25:55,597 –> 00:25:58,537
I just didn’t want to associate with this and, uh, you know,

333
00:25:58,537 –> 00:26:04,297
a lot of people then be like, oh, they just complain
about the, you know, the situation in that moment.

334
00:26:04,297 –> 00:26:06,067
I knew this is my sign to get.

335
00:26:07,007 –> 00:26:08,507
And so I resigned on the spot.

336
00:26:09,017 –> 00:26:11,717
I said, uh, I need to call you back.

337
00:26:11,717 –> 00:26:13,457
And I, I resigned in that moment.

338
00:26:13,697 –> 00:26:15,767
So then again, like this is just a moment.

339
00:26:16,227 –> 00:26:19,227
There was one funny moment, actually,
the other day I’ve reflected on this.

340
00:26:19,467 –> 00:26:22,737
When I was in Singapore, I was still so calm.

341
00:26:22,767 –> 00:26:27,477
I was very deep in my spiritual journey and I’ve
read tons of books, um, during that time as well.

342
00:26:27,477 –> 00:26:35,192
And I had this moment of my mind that said to me,
You should stop reading so many spiritual books
and you should read something business related.

343
00:26:35,582 –> 00:26:39,062
And in that moment, I think my highest self
spoke to me and said, no, no, no, no, no.

344
00:26:39,212 –> 00:26:42,272
Like do not get on that track of
you need to read business books.

345
00:26:42,302 –> 00:26:43,682
You should continue on your path.

346
00:26:43,742 –> 00:26:50,372
I remember this so clearly this was my intuition,
my guide, speaking to me in such a clear voice.

347
00:26:50,792 –> 00:26:57,542
And, uh, I didn’t immediately act on it, but I
remember it now as vividly as it was yesterday.

348
00:26:57,752 –> 00:26:59,412
And this was another moment where I.

349
00:27:00,732 –> 00:27:02,292
And that initiation took place.

350
00:27:02,292 –> 00:27:02,742
There, here.

351
00:27:02,892 –> 00:27:03,342
No, no, no.

352
00:27:03,642 –> 00:27:05,652
Stop running after what you should do.

353
00:27:05,832 –> 00:27:08,652
Stop, uh, stop doing what you’re supposed to do.

354
00:27:09,132 –> 00:27:16,482
And then of course, when the pandemic hit, um,
which was a self, self fulfilling proficiency,
um, had, could have happened in any other way.

355
00:27:16,512 –> 00:27:18,012
I wrote down, I need to be stopped.

356
00:27:18,402 –> 00:27:23,032
So again, this was a moment of
now you do it now or you do it.

357
00:27:23,032 –> 00:27:23,362
never.

358
00:27:23,722 –> 00:27:25,312
So for me, more like of a.

359
00:27:26,187 –> 00:27:29,817
Ongoing transformation with like certain pressure points.

360
00:27:29,817 –> 00:27:32,007
I would say that make me act.

361
00:27:35,037 –> 00:27:40,147
So you talked about your projects
human blasts and your podcast.

362
00:27:40,987 –> 00:27:49,117
Please give us some more insights into what you’re doing
now with your projects and what their purposes potentially.

363
00:27:49,702 –> 00:27:58,632
Yeah, So with human class I I’m creating
an ecosystem, a platform for all things,
conscious entrepreneurship and leadership.

364
00:27:58,662 –> 00:28:12,922
So how, how it started is, um, I wanted to put all
of my knowledge about you know, uh, different altered
state of consciousness and, um, how you can you know,
how we can create these, these altered states of
consciousness in order to find back to your truth.

365
00:28:13,462 –> 00:28:18,172
And a few tools and audit to identify
your purpose values, all of these things.

366
00:28:18,532 –> 00:28:26,672
and I put them into, leadership programs that
I do with leaders with small groups of, of, of
leaders, um, and put them through an experience.

367
00:28:26,942 –> 00:28:34,162
This was the initial idea to just put that in a format so
people can consume it online and also offline in person.

368
00:28:34,762 –> 00:28:35,962
What happened then?

369
00:28:36,059 –> 00:28:36,599
is that.

370
00:28:37,764 –> 00:28:41,814
There’s sort of a community building around
it and you, you know, it because you’re in it.

371
00:28:42,114 –> 00:28:51,414
Uh, initially the idea was to only set that up
to, for people to exchange knowledge and ideas
and stuff for people who go through the programs.

372
00:28:51,414 –> 00:28:54,674
And I invited in a few of my, of my friends.

373
00:28:55,134 –> 00:29:00,294
I could give some input, but now what I realize
people actually are seeking that connection.

374
00:29:00,514 –> 00:29:03,874
Would like-minded people and people want to grow together.

375
00:29:04,174 –> 00:29:19,424
So now that we have the community evolving around
this as well, the beautiful thing is there are so many
amazing people in this community who have also created,
you know, their own programs, their own methodologies,
and we are now working on ways to co-create together.

376
00:29:19,604 –> 00:29:27,817
So I’m really, I really want to explore the concept
of co-creation with people together because in
the old world, it’s really all about competition.

377
00:29:27,817 –> 00:29:29,587
If I have this program, you cannot have it.

378
00:29:30,007 –> 00:29:35,017
Whereas I’m challenging that paradigm
really and say, okay, we can all win.

379
00:29:35,477 –> 00:29:40,817
So if you have something awesome to share, and I have
the reach, I’m like, let’s do something together.

380
00:29:41,057 –> 00:29:47,297
Or like, let’s create a leadership journey together
that encompasses elements of your cause and
then maybe of yours and then blah, blah, blah.

381
00:29:47,687 –> 00:29:49,697
And everyone can win from this.

382
00:29:49,697 –> 00:30:03,177
And it’s a bit scary because you know, it’s not that this
has been done a million times before, so you’re like,
oh man, I need to think about what’s the business model
for a model like this, you know, Who earns from, uh,
from what sort of thing, but it is absolutely possible.

383
00:30:03,477 –> 00:30:12,544
Beneficial, partnerships, mutually beneficial
partnerships, and constantly pushing myself
away from this competitor competition thinking
because of course it’s ingrained in my mind.

384
00:30:12,844 –> 00:30:19,804
And, uh, it’s beautiful though, to see now that
we are onboarding a number of co-creators in the
next couple of weeks have already started now.

385
00:30:20,104 –> 00:30:22,984
and everyone’s bringing in their own secret sauce and.

386
00:30:23,809 –> 00:30:26,899
The network and it’s, uh, it’s growing organically.

387
00:30:26,899 –> 00:30:33,919
So let’s see what it evolves into, but eventually, uh, it
is, uh, an ecosystem for, for all, all of those things.

388
00:30:35,179 –> 00:30:43,759
And, um, and with in sync podcasts, yeah, similarly
here, um, I have set an intention I’m really
fan of setting intentions and letting them.

389
00:30:44,389 –> 00:30:45,529
Fill in the details.

390
00:30:45,559 –> 00:30:47,329
cause my, I find my mind is very restricted.

391
00:30:47,389 –> 00:30:54,869
You know, my mind always tries to figure things out and
my mind always thinks it knows everything and knows the
best possible outcome for me, but it really doesn’t.

392
00:30:54,929 –> 00:30:58,219
So, um, what I now do is I share intentions.

393
00:30:59,004 –> 00:31:05,124
Listen, I want to raise awareness for topics like
spirituality and consciousness in the business world.

394
00:31:05,124 –> 00:31:06,924
What is the best way for me to do this?

395
00:31:07,284 –> 00:31:22,230
And, um, I have, been lucky enough to have received
amazing interview requests from people who, you know, have
built a billion dollar companies who are using tools like
manifestation, visualization, like, you know, I eat my,
peanut butter toast in the morning, like the most normal.

396
00:31:23,805 –> 00:31:37,935
And, uh, and so that’s kind of evolving into a platform
where I’m sharing those stories, but also that gives
people concrete ideas and tools to do this, and kind
of remove that stigma from this does not belong in the
work world because it that’s exactly where it belongs.

397
00:31:40,395 –> 00:31:40,635
Yeah.

398
00:31:40,845 –> 00:31:43,245
So let’s see where I brought all of this is going to go.

399
00:31:43,245 –> 00:31:43,785
I don’t know.

400
00:31:47,104 –> 00:32:01,164
I’m really interested in, I mean, you’ve experienced
the, the business world, the corporate world and
you on your spiritual path for quite some time
now and have, have deep insights from this world.

401
00:32:02,394 –> 00:32:09,834
I’m really interested in what paradigms do you think need
to be challenged in our world today for a better future?

402
00:32:12,134 –> 00:32:17,804
The paradigm of consciousness or unconsciousness,
that is what needs to be that needs to be challenged.

403
00:32:17,804 –> 00:32:24,594
So I, I think, uh, change in everything positive
change only ever starts with the individual, right.

404
00:32:24,594 –> 00:32:30,444
And if you operate from a confined
level of consciousness and that Mimi.

405
00:32:31,864 –> 00:32:35,014
thinking, which is hap, which happens
on lower levels of consciousness.

406
00:32:35,370 –> 00:32:38,640
you never even get to experience things like purpose.

407
00:32:38,670 –> 00:32:45,900
You never even get to think about how can I use technology
for the better what changes need to be solved in the world?

408
00:32:46,110 –> 00:32:46,440
Really.

409
00:32:46,440 –> 00:32:54,247
So, there’s many people who come into this world
who already have that level of consciousness and
they, these are the ones who build the future?

410
00:32:54,487 –> 00:32:56,347
us, uh, the future of technology.

411
00:32:57,082 –> 00:32:57,682
Whatnot.

412
00:32:57,932 –> 00:33:00,942
And they are challenging all of
those paradigms and that’s amazing.

413
00:33:01,302 –> 00:33:08,802
But there is a big population still that isn’t
as lifetime who have really untapped potential
and they would see all of these things.

414
00:33:08,802 –> 00:33:11,982
And I would start thinking in
that way, if their consciousness.

415
00:33:13,547 –> 00:33:17,267
Evolve a little bit away from that scarcity.

416
00:33:17,837 –> 00:33:19,097
I F me first.

417
00:33:19,457 –> 00:33:26,867
There’s no, there’s no, nothing other than the
things that I see, I don’t care what the planet
looks like for future generations sort of thing.

418
00:33:26,877 –> 00:33:32,177
So all of this really happens, uh, when people,
experience an increased level in their consciousness.

419
00:33:32,177 –> 00:33:38,657
And that is the paradigm that I would like to to
challenge and especially in the business world, because
that is where, you know, the money is that money.

420
00:33:39,187 –> 00:33:43,567
Money means power and money means change
and money means a lot of good things.

421
00:33:43,927 –> 00:33:52,164
So, this is the specific set of people that I feel called
to, to work with right now to help them or not have them.

422
00:33:52,164 –> 00:33:54,924
They had any time to themselves, but
like accelerate them a little bit.

423
00:33:57,269 –> 00:33:57,569
Okay.

424
00:33:57,569 –> 00:34:04,669
And do you have the impression that the pandemic
is maybe a catalyst for this development?

425
00:34:04,699 –> 00:34:13,789
Or do you, I mean, I know a lot of people see
out of pandemic, it’s going to be over in a year
or two and everything will get back to normal.

426
00:34:14,299 –> 00:34:22,399
And then there’s other people saying it’s
the beginning of a new revolution of a new
even age of humanity and things like that.

427
00:34:22,429 –> 00:34:25,099
What, what, what, what’s your thoughts about.

428
00:34:28,234 –> 00:34:35,854
I, I mean, I definitely think that the pandemic
is an acceleration of something that has
already started happening a few years ago.

429
00:34:36,154 –> 00:34:39,874
Um, so we are now really at a turning
point for humanity and for the world.

430
00:34:40,174 –> 00:34:44,014
I think the people who say, oh,
it’s all this going back to normal.

431
00:34:44,174 –> 00:34:47,914
I think they viewed life as a, you
know, very short, a short span of.

432
00:34:48,679 –> 00:34:58,709
Whereas humanity has been on the planet now for billions of
years, all the world has been around for billions of years
and, you know, uh, humans for, for, for good time as well.

433
00:34:58,949 –> 00:35:10,229
So only because me being in my thirties, I cannot
see, um, what might happen in a 200 and 300 years
doesn’t mean that the change isn’t happening right now.

434
00:35:10,499 –> 00:35:14,579
So, I, I definitely think that the
pandemic is a bit of an accelerator.

435
00:35:14,589 –> 00:35:15,599
There might be a point where.

436
00:35:16,074 –> 00:35:24,674
People go back a little bit or not move as fast
as I would like them to move or humanity to move.

437
00:35:24,674 –> 00:35:26,504
But there is no going back.

438
00:35:26,924 –> 00:35:28,994
We are always in a constant evolution.

439
00:35:29,504 –> 00:35:32,294
I don’t know why people say this even
like, it’s not, it’s going back to normal.

440
00:35:32,294 –> 00:35:37,874
Like humanity has been evolving for thousands of
years, like, and now in 2020 and we’ll go back.

441
00:35:37,904 –> 00:35:38,864
I don’t, I don’t think so.

442
00:35:38,864 –> 00:35:41,864
You know, we might not move as, as quick, but we are moving.

443
00:35:42,581 –> 00:35:52,474
has already started actually a, I don’t know, the year,
but a few years ago at this energy, has been changing,
uh, for some time there’s people who can talk about.

444
00:35:52,474 –> 00:35:53,164
this in detail.

445
00:35:53,284 –> 00:35:54,214
I’m not the one.

446
00:35:55,424 –> 00:35:55,574
Yeah.

447
00:35:55,574 –> 00:36:04,194
I mean, uh, Daniel Pinchbeck, who was one of my first
guests, he wrote a book on 2012 and he talks about that.

448
00:36:04,247 –> 00:36:11,754
in 2012 was just the beginning and, and
that actually in 2021, will be the next.

449
00:36:13,059 –> 00:36:14,619
I cannot remember exactly.

450
00:36:14,619 –> 00:36:22,869
But I think he said like, because we had this conversation
about, he said, yeah, 2012 was kind of a disappointment
for him that not more happened and so on and so forth.

451
00:36:23,559 –> 00:36:31,119
And then I asked him if, while, I mean, uh, for the world
to change, let’s say this whole 2012 hypothesis is true.

452
00:36:31,844 –> 00:36:33,224
For the whole world to change.

453
00:36:33,224 –> 00:36:35,204
It won’t happen in a day or a year.

454
00:36:35,204 –> 00:36:38,667
Maybe it’s a transition time of, of more than that.

455
00:36:38,667 –> 00:36:44,727
And then he said he actually does this and that guy and
that other guy talks about that, actually that’s true.

456
00:36:44,727 –> 00:36:48,417
And, and 2021 or 22, there will be.

457
00:36:49,227 –> 00:36:53,427
Like the next stage, but I, I’m not
exactly sure about the theory anymore.

458
00:36:53,457 –> 00:36:56,787
And I’m sure there’s alternative theories either about that.

459
00:36:56,787 –> 00:37:07,787
So, so, um, of course transition periods take longer than
just even in human and like even individual lives, uh, when
it comes to whole of humanity, I guess it takes longer.

460
00:37:08,027 –> 00:37:08,867
Yeah, totally.

461
00:37:09,017 –> 00:37:13,357
You know, even with the type of work that I do
right now, and you know, you’re doing it as well.

462
00:37:13,567 –> 00:37:18,934
I don’t know how you feel about it, but the insights that
I keep getting is that I, I’m kind of like, prepared.

463
00:37:19,689 –> 00:37:21,399
Right now it’s not my time yet.

464
00:37:21,399 –> 00:37:22,089
That’s what I know.

465
00:37:22,142 –> 00:37:23,072
it’s very soon.

466
00:37:23,156 –> 00:37:28,146
but even like the type of work that, that
I do is not everyone is ready for it yet.

467
00:37:28,416 –> 00:37:28,566
So.

468
00:37:28,566 –> 00:37:34,326
everything that I do is kind of like
building, building up to the point where
people went, you know, there’s a big enough.

469
00:37:35,011 –> 00:37:36,361
For that to be adopted.

470
00:37:36,361 –> 00:37:44,761
So I noticed even for my own work and it’s,
I still keep going because I know we have the
processes initiated more and more people wake up.

471
00:37:44,881 –> 00:37:47,221
Now it’s about, you know, reaching a critical mass.

472
00:37:47,471 –> 00:37:59,971
And, uh, I have no influence about, uh, I mean
with my book, I do have influence about it, but I
cannot say when that’s going to happen, but even I
know if I’m still early on in the journey like this
walk is going to take off and my prediction is.

473
00:38:01,131 –> 00:38:03,861
I keep getting the number 37% when I’m 47.

474
00:38:03,861 –> 00:38:09,231
So in six years or so, um, that’s, that’s the timeframe
that I’ve been getting on for many years already.

475
00:38:09,751 –> 00:38:16,291
So I think then there’s going to be another
big wave and until then there will be
smaller ones, but that’s the timeline.

476
00:38:17,866 –> 00:38:18,256
Yeah, sure.

477
00:38:18,256 –> 00:38:23,912
I mean, uh, I’m I’m I fully agree with
you, development circles take a long time.

478
00:38:23,912 –> 00:38:27,722
You also know it from business and transformation processes.

479
00:38:27,752 –> 00:38:30,332
Take a long, long time and sometimes to be.

480
00:38:30,882 –> 00:38:31,752
In the middle of it.

481
00:38:31,752 –> 00:38:33,042
So now we’re done.

482
00:38:33,792 –> 00:38:38,742
But then when we look back three years later, or five
years later, or 10 years later, we’re like, oh my God.

483
00:38:38,772 –> 00:38:42,102
Then I thought, uh, I already arrived at whatever it is now.

484
00:38:42,342 –> 00:38:42,642
So,

485
00:38:43,092 –> 00:38:43,842
Yeah, it doesn’t mean that.

486
00:38:43,842 –> 00:38:44,892
it can’t happen now.

487
00:38:44,922 –> 00:38:45,222
Right.

488
00:38:45,222 –> 00:38:48,462
But there will be another very
big push in a, in a few years.

489
00:38:48,907 –> 00:38:49,717
It takes time.

490
00:38:49,747 –> 00:38:58,567
I mean, and especially when it comes to all of humanity,
um, you know, some, something that affects all of
humanity won’t happen in a few months, you know?

491
00:38:58,657 –> 00:39:05,117
So it’s a it’s it’s you know, I don’t know,
like, quantum leaps, how the work exactly.

492
00:39:05,117 –> 00:39:09,722
And, and, the, the, from, from, uh, in the evolution.

493
00:39:10,857 –> 00:39:11,157
Yeah.

494
00:39:11,157 –> 00:39:17,637
I think when we look at development cycles in general and
transformational cycles in general, it’s just takes time.

495
00:39:17,737 –> 00:39:18,517
I think so to me.

496
00:39:18,517 –> 00:39:18,877
Yeah.

497
00:39:19,357 –> 00:39:19,627
Yeah.

498
00:39:19,747 –> 00:39:23,791
And, you know, as you said, like most
changes happening also, gradually.

499
00:39:24,091 –> 00:39:33,951
Um, so, you know, you’re changing right now
in this very moment, like by listening to this
conversation, you know, this is initiating a
transformation process in someone’s mind, right?

500
00:39:34,411 –> 00:39:36,751
So people always think I’m not changing, blah, blah, blah.

501
00:39:36,781 –> 00:39:46,141
Well, you know, you’re listening to this and then
after what you might look up the new paradigm, or you
might look up altered states of consciousness, you
know, and yes, you are developing every single second.

502
00:39:46,201 –> 00:39:57,061
Um, and then at one point it clicks and then, and
then it’s visible, but it doesn’t mean that we
are not changing all the time, just humans that
we just want to hold on to like what they know.

503
00:39:58,231 –> 00:39:59,701
I have the same sometimes.

504
00:40:02,987 –> 00:40:19,007
So finally, uh, I really interested when you assume
yourself into 100 years from now and when your
children or grandchildren will think and talk about
you, what is it that you want to be remembered for?

505
00:40:20,027 –> 00:40:21,917
Or what do you think people will remember?

506
00:40:21,917 –> 00:40:22,097
You.

507
00:40:24,637 –> 00:40:28,297
I hope that people will remember me for, as somebody who.

508
00:40:29,237 –> 00:40:38,567
Has tried to live as authentic, authentically
and honest as, as I possibly can in whatever
form that will, that will look like.

509
00:40:38,567 –> 00:40:47,043
And, uh, that people recognize the effort that I’m
putting into, like my intentions and helping helping to.

510
00:40:48,273 –> 00:40:53,643
Advanced humanity in my own little way, even if it’s just
one little person that was positively impacted by my world.

511
00:40:53,643 –> 00:41:00,807
So I just hope that people, yeah, that’s, that’s what I
would like people to recognize for, from my authentic self.

512
00:41:02,197 –> 00:41:04,057
Okay, thank you very much.

513
00:41:04,087 –> 00:41:05,767
Thank you for your, time.

514
00:41:05,767 –> 00:41:07,057
And this conversation.

515
00:41:07,183 –> 00:41:07,903
Thank you too.

516
00:41:07,941 –> 00:41:11,420
So hope to see you back again, and I wish you a great day.

517
00:41:11,610 –> 00:41:12,000
Thank you.

518
00:41:14,978 –> 00:41:19,688
Thanks for staying tuned for this
edition of challenging paradigm X.

519
00:41:20,168 –> 00:41:24,398
If you like this episode with Kat Kugler,
feel free to share it with your community.

520
00:41:24,398 –> 00:41:26,768
So cat’s message gets spread even further.

521
00:41:27,803 –> 00:41:30,593
And the show notes, you will find the links to our work.

522
00:41:31,493 –> 00:41:33,923
Please hit subscribe and rate my podcast.

523
00:41:33,923 –> 00:41:37,463
If you like that, I’d also be glad if you write me a review.

524
00:41:38,003 –> 00:41:42,713
If you have any questions or comments,
feel free to contact me next week.

525
00:41:42,713 –> 00:41:46,973
We’re up with another edition of
challenging paradigm X until then.

526
00:41:47,003 –> 00:41:48,713
I wish you a great week.