May 19, 2020 xerxes

In this interview, Natalie Riviere talks about topics ranging from purpose, online marketing, conscious social businesses, and the importance of lifestyle and health, for your life and your work.

Natalie Riviere CEO, Commetta,

With her international communications collective, Commetta, specialized in inbound marketing, content, campaigns and reputation management, Natalie empowers social leaders and  businesses to #ShineOnline and #BtheChange they wish to see in the world. Natalie’s driven to change digital communications for the better by immersing the media with positive, true content, and the economy with conscious entrepreneurship and local market offerings.

Passionate about health, Natalie is also certified in teaching Yoga, Meditation and Plant-Based Nutrition.

Natalie Riviere’s Links 



Video Excerpts From the Podcast

Introducing Natalie Riviere

Paradigm Shifts in Marketing and Business

What Is Important in Marketing

Which Evolution or Revolution Needs to Take Place

Purpose in Business and Life

Educating Business and Marketing as a Way to Equal the Opportunity

Transcript of the Interview
This text has been auto-transcripted. Please excuse mistakes.

Xerxes Voshmgir: So, hi, here is Xerxes, and today I’m here with Natalie Riviere.

So Natalie, please introduce yourself.

Who are you?

Natalie Riviere: First of all, I’m very grateful to be here.

Thank you so much for having me.

Natalie Riviere: I, Natalie Riviere: professionally identify as a social entrepreneur.

Natalie Riviere: I’ve been working in the field of online marketing for over a decade as a consultant and now, Natalie Riviere: for many years as a collective of contractors that are niched in particularly inbound marketing.

And we’re at the service of companies in the conscious business sphere.

So most of our clients fall within the industries of education, health environments, entrepreneurship, culture.

If you’ve heard of the B Corp movement, Natalie Riviere: we’re trying to take more space online, Natalie Riviere: with the change makers and also give them more room in our economy.

Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay, great.

And why do you do what you do?

Natalie Riviere: at the base, it is a mission to shift paradigms, so it’s perfectly suited for this conversation in this podcast.

Natalie Riviere: there’s a lot of change that I felt our world needed and the best way that I felt I could use my time towards that change was to dilute the media with positive, true, authentic content and dilute our economy with social, local businesses that are using business as a force for good to solve needs and problems and not just be focused only on profit.

Xerxes Voshmgir: And Xerxes Voshmgir: how come you Xerxes Voshmgir: came to this field Xerxes Voshmgir: and went into this field?

Xerxes Voshmgir: I often experience that Xerxes Voshmgir: people do after a certain time what they do because they had certain turning points in their life.

Xerxes Voshmgir: Did you experience Xerxes Voshmgir: anything like that before you went into this field?

Natalie Riviere: Yes, I would say, Natalie Riviere: I’m in this field due to what I feel is the necessary work that I can contribute to.

At the moment, it wasn’t really a a thought of, wow, everything’s so great.

What do I want to do here?

I’m following my heart.


But, Natalie Riviere: following what I feel I can contribute, like a mission that I feel connected to.

Natalie Riviere: I was in business school, Natalie Riviere: for long periods of time college, university.

And I was about to graduate and I really didn’t want to enter the corporate box and the machine that was around me, it particularly in a business school as the direct path ahead of me, I did an exchange and studied and lived in Australia.

For a semester and on the side to keep myself fulfilled and happy.

I was deeply involved in hobbies in the alternative health sphere.

So yoga, plant based nutrition, meditation, and Natalie Riviere: also arts.

So working as a makeup artist, Natalie Riviere: part time during school, and I was singing in a band.

Natalie Riviere: And Natalie Riviere: in Australia where I was staying in Melbourne, actually, they had this street and this whole community that was living full time off the arts, the arts were very supported.

They had met the industry, so it was in, let’s say entertainment, but also corporate recordings.

And so a whole entire community of people living really well off of this.

And so.

At one point in reflection on the trip, Natalie Riviere: I was at a music festival, took some space and was just really thinking of how could, how could we feel here?

Like we do have the opportunity to do what we want to do.

We are here to be ourselves.

There is space for us to.

Tap into what we feel is needed and then follow that.

I also love to travel and so location independence was something I wanted to maintain, not have to start over every time I went somewhere new and really just facing the reality of being a woman, about to go into the corporate world, Natalie Riviere: having the potential to bring in children to this life.

I was really struck with how I would answer the question of why I brought them here.

Like how would I tell them about our governments being corrupt in our systems not being optimal or reliable?

How would I address the fact that our environment isn’t secure and our future therefore isn’t either.

Natalie Riviere: and so I was really motivated to go into this in order to make a change that I felt the world needed to be more confident about bringing more people into it and would make me more proud to, Natalie Riviere: share what we’ve done with it and where we were at.

Xerxes Voshmgir: And, Xerxes Voshmgir: when was that happening?

This process.

Natalie Riviere: Oh boy.

This was in 2004 so long time ago.

Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay.

And since then, we in this field where you work with companies that are in the conscious field and,

Natalie Riviere: Exactly.

I started in the arts because of having been in music industry at that moment.

There was a lot of people around me that were wondering how, you know, we were getting people to our shows.

How are we successfully putting on these events?

So I started a company with a friend that was in the bandwidth while we were still in university to help people in arts put together shows, fundraisers, like flyers, promotion, PR.

Natalie Riviere: and so.

Registered the business at that time.

And then upon graduation, early on, after working shortly with the family business I have that’s in the environment sector, I got recruited to the music industry and this was actually the time that Napster hit.

Natalie Riviere: that’s when music became free and their product got deemed valueless, at least for the music sharing component.


My client had 12 record labels and I eventually, with them really not knowing how to handle this, what to do, where to go, recommended that they go direct to their consumer base with content newsletters, really tap into their fan base, direct relationships as well as sell their own catalogs.

And so they were my first client that I hired to build a, Natalie Riviere: eCommerce platform for their own music.

Even if you know, a, eventually iTunes deemed a song worth 99 cents, that’s fine, but sell it yourself, you know, go, go direct.

The more independent movement, Natalie Riviere: is what I felt was best.

And that is what followed in that industry.

And I gotta say it was such a wonderful case study.

It was an incredible learning to begin my career in online marketing, in the music industry at that time.

Xerxes Voshmgir: And it was perhaps also a perfect opportunity to learn how to Xerxes Voshmgir: deal in crisis situation Xerxes Voshmgir: with your customers and create new Xerxes Voshmgir: perspectives for foreign with your customers.

Because in a way, now we are experiencing Xerxes Voshmgir: a similar situation as perhaps Xerxes Voshmgir: then when Xerxes Voshmgir: your customer was threatened by Napster and iTunes.

Xerxes Voshmgir: now it’s a global thing, not just for one industry.

So, Xerxes Voshmgir: what, what are your thoughts on that for situations as we are in right now?

Xerxes Voshmgir: maybe in general, maybe in specific.

Natalie Riviere: I had never really made that connection, but it’s, it’s a wise one and it is valid.

Natalie Riviere: I think, you know, even though so much is changing online all the time, I get that question a lot.

How do you keep up, Natalie Riviere: diving into online marketing at that time?

You know, things changed, but they not really like, you know, the biggest change was an SEO and a penguin came out and made quality more valuable than quantity.

And that is still where we’re shifting.

Natalie Riviere: that’s where my instincts were.

Even at the time, the idea to go direct, to own your relationships, to be connected directly to your clients is still the message that I’m, I’m sharing, especially now.

Natalie Riviere: when we are all online based, this is more relevant than ever and we don’t want to put all our eggs in a basket that we’re not in control of or that we don’t own or that isn’t building value for our brand or our assets as an entrepreneur or a business.

And so the way that I approached online marketing at the time ended up being called inbound marketing, which is the marketing that you really own as a company.

It’s the organic strategies to connect with leads and build community, and those strategies end up building value in your brand, your company, your assets, your content.

Natalie Riviere: And I really think that now more than ever, it’s shows us that yes, online is important, but we don’t want to just rely on, let’s say social media that tomorrow could shut down or start charging, or already puts a lot of limits and is in control of what you see when and who you connect with.

So my line that I tell people is like.

You know, those are Facebook’s friends, like they’re not your friends until you have their email address.

They’re not your friends until you have their phone number until you’re in direct contact with them.

And so the way that I even teach online marketing combines the inbound marketing method with web design and content marketing.

And it reinforces that there’s three phases of what we’re dealing with, and it’s strategic management, it’s reputation management, which is where SEO and social media fall, and it’s huge.

But relationship management happens with email marketing directly to your contacts, your database, and through the website that hopefully you own and that represents the value of your brand.

Xerxes Voshmgir: so what do you basically say is that.

Apart from being able to manage, Xerxes Voshmgir: the relationship with your customers.

Also, you talk a lot about independence Xerxes Voshmgir: from big platforms in the way that I, I understand it.

Xerxes Voshmgir: do you think anything else is important, Xerxes Voshmgir: the way you work from your perspective?

Xerxes Voshmgir: like.

Apart from independence.

When you look Xerxes Voshmgir: at how marketing today, also in the future with the perspective that the way you also know how social media platforms, for example, work and the limitations to give.

Xerxes Voshmgir: is there other things that you think that are really important to consider.

Natalie Riviere: Yeah.

The key word in that, that system and in these conversations is relationships.

I believe now we’re ready to like, you know, put at the forefront the fact that relationships is the currency in business.

It’s, it’s really the currency that as a marketer, at least I’ve realized.

It is my job to attract, build, and maintain longterm relationships for clients.

And, and that brings up the word human, that this is a human story.

And, Natalie Riviere: I do also Natalie Riviere: have a lot of gratitude for my background in yoga and meditation and nutrition and wellness in general health, which serves me constantly in this process as well, especially in crisis.

So then, and now.

Having my personal practices be rooted in that.

Those techniques that help with emotional regulation and stress management, that allows me to then meet these clients in these vulnerable areas.

Even if it’s not in a crisis time, it’s difficult to promote yourself.

It’s difficult to talk about yourself, like you can do that for other people, but we can’t be the observer and the observed at the same time.

So it’s very difficult to tell your own story and you need someone to do that for you.

And that’s a vulnerable place.

And that’s a intimate place.

And so at the end of the day, regardless of the technology that we’re using and how far it goes, where human beings behind it, every click is in the sense of a purchase of a relationship that’s being built is a human on the other side of that click.

And so I think that, you know, where I’m.

Getting to speak about more and more, which is a sign of it being something that we’re more and more ready for, and more and more relevant for our times, especially again now given this crisis is our humanity.

You know, the fact that we are energetic, emotional, Natalie Riviere: sentient beings, and that that’s really, you know, behind the numbers that you value in your business, behind your strategies are people with feelings.


You know, human realities that we need to, I think, honor and connect to and ideally add value to

Xerxes Voshmgir: And, Xerxes Voshmgir: so my key question is what paradigms do you think need to be challenged?

t Athe one hand, Xerxes Voshmgir: in your, industry and your work.

Maybe at the other hand, if you want to talk also in general, maybe for the world, the world today in this particular situation, perhaps, and humanity.

So it’s really up to you.

Natalie Riviere: That’s a good question.


Well, I’d say, Natalie Riviere: That, you know, our discussion even kind of reinforced that.

That’s sort of always the path I’ve been on, like from my initial thought of things need to change and coming from the perspective of business and and specialized in marketing.


I kind of see that we’re still in our barter system.

It’s just times 7 billion plus people now.

And we have a medium of exchange between us money, but we’re still in an exchange system.

And in order to exchange, it’s comes down to, Natalie Riviere: the ability to communicate what you’re available to exchange and then the ability to actually exchange it, to have that intro, that transaction.

And right now, that’s online for us.

And, and especially in this crisis, it’s literally all we’ve got.

And so, Natalie Riviere: I was grateful that I entered this field at the time that the internet was so becoming so accessible and becoming a, you know, a marketplace for us.

And it was one that already was shifting a paradigm for communications, let’s say globally.

You know, right now everyone’s online and we haven’t had that kind of marketing power or even communication of power since, you know, bef pre television when everyone was just listening to the radio and you had a hundred percent of everyone in one place.

Natalie Riviere: and so the internet presented that in terms of marketing and communication, it was the first communication tool that we had globally.

Natalie Riviere: that wasn’t built for advertisement.

It wasn’t, Natalie Riviere: obliged to be a one way propaganda vehicle.

Natalie Riviere: so the internet itself was a paradigm shift for mass communication and marketing.

And then within the internet, I would say what I’m specialized in the concept of inbound marketing or these organic.

Natalie Riviere: marketing methods, communication methods.

That was a paradigm shift as well, because everyone hit the internet with the same way they knew how to use the other promotion tools is like, just sell advertising.

And you know, one way me, me, me, like blah, blah, blah.

We have the opportunity to have two way communication now, connected conversations.

So inbound marketing in and of itself represents a paradigm shift within online marketing.

And I think it’s a term people are more used to now.

And even social business as a concept, Natalie Riviere: was a paradigm shift to say, Hey, business shouldn’t just be about profit.

Let’s look at the planet.

Let’s look at people.

Let’s look at purpose.

And that, you know, business should be solving a problem and if you’re not solving a problem with your business and what are you doing?

And so these were the subjects that I’ve been rallying at the beginning, feeling that that’s where we needed to go in our barter system to know that social business conscious business is an option and an industry in and of itself kind of competing with the death and dying industry that we’ve all been like built up on.

There is a life and living industry.

Natalie Riviere: And so that’s represented through these B Corps, through these social businesses.

Natalie Riviere: and then I would say how I’m even, you know, that personal reflection of how do I want to live.

Like if I were to bring a human here, I would want to be able to be home with them or travel with them.

Natalie Riviere: you know.

Even if I’m not the fact that I have, you know, people in my life, if you want to see one day, I really never felt that it made sense that it was so healthy.

To be stuck in this nine to five box of going in and checking out and just felt so robotic and not human.

And so lifestyle is the word that comes up for me in terms of always being at the root of my goals.

And it was motivated by my own lifestyle, but it represents a lifestyle in corporate culture that I feel we needed to shift to.

And that’s a paradigm shift of how we work.

And so Commetta, which is the organization that I run, we’re a collective of contractors that at all basically put those values first.

Our lifestyle, our health, the quality of her life comes first.

We’re human beings first, and by honoring that and taking care of each other that way, and supporting each other and reminding each other that that’s what the opportunity we have right now together.

It really allows our work to be more impactful and higher quality and you know, truly, truly valuable because it’s so pure and, and, Natalie Riviere: positive and, and, you know, really, Natalie Riviere: very, very intentional.

So the way that I’m running the business, the business that I’m building, the, the behind the scenes, the collective component to it.

Represents a new way of working for contractors.

Natalie Riviere: I’ve always felt in this barter system that it was risky to put all your eggs in one basket.

So the idea of being employee in banking on a big company to pay your pension and you know, retire.

Well, I mean, we’ve been seeing it for a long time that that’s not reliable.

And now in this crisis, my God did that just show up to say, Hey, look at these big companies are the first ones to break down and shoot you aside.

And you know, it’s the smaller businesses that are representing the stories of hope and the resilience that’s needed to be able to adapt.

And entrepreneurship is the game of resilience.

So it’s a leap of faith every day.

I define it as faith.


There is a paradigm shift in the way that I’m even running this company and the, the lifestyle I think that it represents for contractors, Natalie Riviere: particularly to say, and, and I think everyone honestly should look at themselves as an independent professional.

And they’re either lending their name and their talent and their energy to an organization that preexists that hopefully they align with.

Or they’re going to go on their own with it.

Natalie Riviere: but either way, it’s really important that we all know our value, that we all know, you know, what we’re worth on an open market and what we’re worth maybe to that company then, and that we know what our skills are, so that if we are in the position where we need to use them independently, we’re confident enough to do that.

Natalie Riviere: However, in marketing right now, and that’s sort of why I went into it.

It was that like, yes, I could make a lot more money than I’ve made, Natalie Riviere: easy because there’s not too many people specialized in online marketing.

It’s hard to catch up.

They still can’t really teach it so well, but that wasn’t going to change anything.

Natalie Riviere: if I wanted to help the people who were ready to build conscious businesses to contribute to a conscious economy, go against the grain against the norm.

They were wonderful.

I met a lot of them in the arts and in health, but they had no idea how to promote or organize themselves.

And so, you know, they would never afford a huge marketing agency that the larger companies use that are just big boxes.

Again, upselling and over heading and still not really understanding what they’re doing or getting necessarily the best results.

And that would be like considered my competition right now, or the competition is these platforms with contractors, but they’re like not niched.

And it’s like on your own.

So, you know, the Upworks and the fivers and Natalie Riviere: you know, 99 designs and all of these platforms are brilliant, but.

You know, when you’re trying to find someone to help you, you’d have to figure out the whole industry to know how to best work with those people.

You’d have to, you’d have to become an expert to know really how to leverage and choose your team that way.

So what we’re doing is introducing the concept of organizing this, this industry niching.

Natalie Riviere: and the Commetta collective represents contractors that are aligned in our values.

Natalie Riviere: Our ethics for professionalism.

We come under a brand that speaks to that and for that, and we practice it really with each other, most I’d say.

Natalie Riviere: but we’re also aligned under this product line that I developed that fits in those categories that I mentioned.

And so it helps organize online marketing a bit and helps then you as a contractor to learn actually what you’re doing and how you could sell it and what, what inclusions and what pricing.

So on a lot of levels, there’s a lot of paradigm shifts that are represented

Xerxes Voshmgir: Yeah, definitely.

Natalie Riviere: where I’m playing.

Xerxes Voshmgir: And, Xerxes Voshmgir: you mentioned purpose, Xerxes Voshmgir: just now and, Xerxes Voshmgir: I wondered, so could you tell us how you see.

The importance of purpose in business in general, like authentic purpose, not the thing that some marketing agencies to accompany.

You have to publish as your purpose, so you make more money, but like true purpose.

How do you see the importance of true purpose in business, in marketing, and maybe you want to tell us a bit about the purpose of your company or your collective.

Natalie Riviere: Well, our purpose, definitely like the mission is summarized in diluting the media with positive, true content, diluting the economy with conscious social businesses and offerings, Natalie Riviere: in order to equalize the opportunities here.

So that’s really.

What is under this mission is, is a goal of equality, but specifically equality in opportunity.

I mean, if we all knew how our barter system works, if we all learned this in school, cause every profession, let’s say you’re learning or that you could choose, has an industry behind it.

Everything is a business.

Every single official organization group of people is one form of a business or another.

Our governments, our schools, our hospital, they’re all businesses.

If people knew that and if they knew how business worked.

I think we make different decisions and I think we’d also see if everyone had that knowledge, it would be a question of the cream rising to the top and not privilege or, Natalie Riviere: because of our past making things like who is successful or why they’re the way they are.

So at the core of this, and maybe that also comes from the experience of being a woman and particularly a women in business, is like, there’s a really big theme of equality and equal opportunity.

And so we use education and this whole like work that we’re doing.

Yes, we offer it as an agency, but we also coach, Natalie Riviere: and train.

And that would, that at the core of the mission and the purpose is really to make marketing.

Education, accessible, make marketing, for lack of a better word, more democratic.

So that ideally, if everyone had this knowledge while they were then learning about what they wanted to specialize in, Natalie Riviere: we’d see a different economy.

We’d see our barter system would probably balance out differently.

So that’s speaks to the purpose of what I’m doing.

And then the importance of purpose in general.

I think not only is it tied to health, like if you look at, you know, some of the like longevity studies of people that live the healthiest or the happiest, they’re in community and they have meaning and purpose.

And so this maybe brings up more of like the yoga side of our conversation.

The word that came up for me strong when you were asking is energy.

It’s like energy alignment.

So if you can talk about purpose, yes.

There’s like no, your wire as a marketing piece, I get that.

But when you are aligned with your true purpose, when there is deep meaning in what you’re doing, when you feel connected to what you’re here for and the opportunity you have in that moment, and all of those things are aligned, that moment, your energy and intention and attention and a bigger picture that it’s meaningful for you.

I think that that’s actually when impact can happen.

That’s actually when change happens and being able to change.

It feels like a superpower.

Like life is changed, but somehow we all are change of earth and resistant.

However, you know, when you align with a purpose and and are able to surrender to something that is bigger than you.

This energy shows up to allow you to connect to it and guide you through it and bring you along it, and it takes you far beyond something you could ever do from your own mind thinking that that’s your purpose.

Xerxes Voshmgir: And what do you think is the necessary evolution or revolution to take place in business from your perspective, from your experience?

Natalie Riviere: I think we’re seeing it right now, Natalie Riviere: in the fact that we just learnt about what’s essential for us.

And then now, Natalie Riviere: as we go further in this.


We’re also learning about how we’ve been treating those people that are essential.

Natalie Riviere: I think the truth always wants to come out and we’re at a moment where a lot of truths are coming to surface.

This is a revealing time.

It’s also a transformative time.

And, and so business and the economy and the barter system are not inherently bad.

They’re actually brilliant.

Like really, if you think about it.

A barter system that can connect all of us and make sure we all have shelter or food enough to be alive right now.

Like I’m not speaking to the quality of all of our lives, but the fact that we’re all here with enough to be here and somehow finding our way to trade that system is fascinating.

It’s brilliant, and it’s not inherently disproportionate as a concept.

Natalie Riviere: So it really comes back to that human word that like at the end of the day, we’ve been focused on numbers or you know, reach.

And it’s, it’s really numbers, like whether it’s marketing numbers or dollars, but behind all of that is our human beings and the quality of their life and how we treat each other.

And I would even extend it to how we treat our animals.

Like, you know, how are we treating the living beings on this planet?

In this economy, how does the economy allow for the quality of our lives?

I think when we match business to that being something healthy and to actually have quality to all of the life, Natalie Riviere: I think business is the way, honestly, it is the system we have in place between us.

It’s what connects us.

It’s, it literally is the web of our society.

It’s a beautiful thing.

It just needs to have a lot of truth come out and have a lot of re calibration.

And I think that the way to get there, at least from what I’ve seen in the mission I’m tapped into, is by educating and being a part of revealing the truth about how it works.

And that’s sort of what we’re committed to.

Natalie Riviere: as the committed collective is, like, we.

No want everyone to know how to trade, how to communicate with their available to trade.

And once they know how to do that, they’ll a, probably make different choices about the businesses around them.

Once they understand that they are businesses and they’ll have different opportunities and be able to do more with their own time and purpose because they won’t be blocked by not knowing how to go about it.

Xerxes Voshmgir: So, yeah, I always say that, Xerxes Voshmgir: I personally believe that we need to focus more on purpose in business and, Xerxes Voshmgir: that the paradigm of profit maximization doesn’t, doesn’t really match our times anymore.

It was matching different times, but those have passed and we have, Xerxes Voshmgir: now big challenges ahead of us.

Xerxes Voshmgir: not with depend damage.

The pandemic might kick off something that’s might lead to a bigger transformation, but I think the question of what is our purpose in business, in our personal life, in business.

And, Xerxes Voshmgir: in our society, but actually as, as humanity in times where we are having major challenges for us as humanity is really important.

So I personally would love to see, Xerxes Voshmgir: more of a shift towards from profit maximization to, yes, we need to make profits, but we need to actually maximize purpose.

Natalie Riviere: Yeah.

It’s not that money is a bad thing at all.

And I ha, I’ve always had to also reinforce that.

So like when I started teaching again long, long time ago, people would get angry when they find out about how it actually works.

And fair enough, of course.

But it’s not that business is a bad word, and it’s not that money is a bad word, and so we want to actually, you know, please, I wish everyone, you know, the abundance, especially if they’re in a place where they’re driven by more than just that, like I hope that you’d have it in order to achieve those goals.

It’s the medium of exchange in our barter system.

It’s not the point of exchange.

It’s not what we’re actually exchanging.

At the end of the day, that’s not what we’re here to deliver, serve, or do.

It’s just the medium.

It’s, it helps us organize the barter system times 7 billion plus people.

So we just, it’s fascinating.

It’s as a system, we just haven’t gotten to the rest of the story like it, it literally is just the, the way to get there, but not where we’re going.

Xerxes Voshmgir: And Xerxes Voshmgir: my final question is about, Xerxes Voshmgir: and you’ve talked a bit about it already, so what’s the impact that you want to have with your work and everything else you do?

Xerxes Voshmgir: Your life, the love on the people around you, and maybe even humanity.

Natalie Riviere: I was driven by the goal of educating as a way to equal the opportunity in our, our economy.


When I started educating at the beginning of this, Natalie Riviere: people were all for it after they got over being angry about it, but then they had nowhere to go.

And so I had to develop a company that could actually help them in an affordable way, in an accessible way before I could really turn on the education engine.

So I would love, in my lifetime, personally, my, my, my goals are to make, Natalie Riviere: marketing and therefore economy, Natalie Riviere: exchange system.

Education, universal.

Natalie Riviere: that’s one thing that I think, again, if we’re all educated, then we’ll see different results on it.

So making communication and exchange marketing in our times, online marketing knowledge, literally something that’s a part of every program, something that’s in every school.

Natalie Riviere: that’s, that’s.

One of my goals that I’m still working towards, and that’s feeling closer than ever.

Natalie Riviere: and so equaling the opportunities in business,

Natalie Riviere: is that the core of it?

And I think that that represents also shifting a corporate culture.


I’m also involved in this movement called fuckup nights, which is a very provocative brand that came out of Mexico.

Natalie Riviere: and it literally comes down to events happening now in over 315 cities around the world of entrepreneurs, professionals, sharing failure stories.

And that’s fun.

And that’s the acronym and it is fun.

But what it’s representing is more of an actual, also paradigm shift in corporate culture to bring us towards more empathy, towards more transparency, towards more vulnerability.

Again, the fact that we’re humans, and this isn’t easy and life is changed, so it’s not always on the up curve and it’s not always great.

Natalie Riviere: and it points to the work of Dr.

Carol Dweck out of the US on the growth mindset.

And how.

Natalie Riviere: you know, everything is happening on this kind of curve.

And if we stop at the down point and you focus there, yeah, it’s gonna feel like a failure.

And it might be, that’s where you cut off.

But if you keep going, it inevitably will just go up and down again.

And if I were to share from my business training one of the diagrams that comes back all the time.

Is the concept of product life cycle.

And that touches on change as well.

And how if you make a product and let’s use, you know, gas cars that the product inevitably life cycle will go up and then it will go down.

And the goal isn’t to like ride it until every drop of oil is out of our planet and it has completely decomposed.

The goal would be in why is business.

Which is a profession that we should all make.

We all learn and honor to reinvent based on demand, using business as a force to solve problems, to meet needs and demand.

And so you would want to launch that more sustainable energy solution and then improve it and improve it so that as a business, you ride the steady wave through the process of reinvention and, and finding that union, that yoga that.

Steady point, that common point in change.

And so I guess that’s part of what I’d like to educate in Natalie Riviere: my lifetime here and I hope that Natalie Riviere: serves.

Xerxes Voshmgir: I’m sure.

Okay, great.

Thank you very much for this very interesting conversation

Natalie Riviere: Thank you.

Xerxes Voshmgir: yeah, I wish you a



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