In this podcast interview, Hauxita talks about her experience of healing her breast cancer with indigenous medicines from South America – which are called “sacred medicines” within tribal cultures and which is generally referred to as “shamanic work” in the West. She aims to inform people about the path of working with sacred medicines like Kambo, Ayahuasca, Rapé, San Pedro/Wachuma, Bufo, etc. in a sustainable way. Furthermore, she will give us an authentic perspective about the path of so-called „shamanic healing“.
Hauxita (*1987) was born and raised in Germany. Her family’s roots are in Central Asia. She lives in Peru and is preparing a community-based conservation project in the lowland-jungle of Northern Peru. Hauxita holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Film Theory and History of Art from Freie Universität Berlin. Since 2013 she lives and studies with a variety of indigenous people of the Amazon Rainforest in South America.
Hauxita loves to travel the world and in doing so, she is sharing the medicine knowledge of her indigenous friends. The motivation to her commitment is first and foremost educating by sharing information as well as helping people to connect to the indigenous wisdom and sacred medicines in the most sustainable way to eventually be able to empower their very own capacity of self-healing.
Feel free to contact Hauxita for questions and support on your own healing path at firstname.lastname@example.org
YouTube Channel: haux haux from the hammock
Disclaimer: In this episode, when we talk about “medicine” or “sacred medicine”, we do not refer to western medicine but rather indigenous natural substances that are considered by indigenous people as sacred medicines. Furthermore, please do not look at this interview for conventional medical advice.
Video Excerpts From the Podcast
What is Shamanism and Does It Really Exist?
What Are Spirits?
Sacred Medicines – Therapeutic vs. Recreational Use
What Is Kambo and How Does It Work?
Healing Cancer in the Amazon
Which Paradigms Need to Be Challenged in Healing Work
The Key Role of the Dieta (the Diet) in Sacred Medicine Work
Medicine Tourism and the Authentic Path of “Shamanic” Work
Transcript of the Interview with Hauxita
This text has been auto-transcripted. Please excuse mistakes.
Xerxes Voshmgir: So, hi, here’s Xerxes, and today I’m here with Hauxita.
Xerxes Voshmgir: I know you for quite, for some time.
And, Xerxes Voshmgir: we work together and what was always really striking to me is that, Xerxes Voshmgir: most people who do the things that you do, they call themselves shaman, but you don’t.
So, please tell me why, why don’t you call yourself a shaman.
Although you do a lot of things that people who call themselves shamans do.
Hauxita: Well, I believe that the word shaman, the term shaman as a it is used nowadays Hauxita: especially in the new age approach to healing is not used in its proper way the word, the word shaman has a true origin linguistically.
It goes back as far as we know, I can’t prove this, but this is what some sources say it goes back to some indigenous group using a specific language.
And there they were using a specific word that is referring to our nowadays shaman and that was like in East-Siberia 5,000 years ago.
Hauxita: in their understanding, Hauxita: it’s a person, a person who knows.
A person who’s bridging between the spirit world and a world we’re living in.
Hauxita: Here in South America where I have been living and studying in the last seven years, no one, a of true connection with that spirit world would call themselves shaman.
I never encountered that word ever in all my travels into the jungle.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay,
Hauxita: that’s very interesting.
So, they call themselves maybe, Hauxita: translated to the healer of the village or, the chief and the elder of the village who’s also supporting the community to hear that shaman, as such, I never ran across it.
Hauxita: A lot of people who are working in that realm of connecting our world with that spirit world.
They wouldn’t even use a word to describe themselves.
They just do what they do and it’s all, that’s all it is.
They don’t have to call themselves something.
As a friend of mine is seeing when he’s closing, Hauxita: his ceremonies:
If someone asks you: “Who are you.”
And you answer with what you do, like with one profession that you do, or one passion you just going to describe, Hauxita: and minimize a part of yourself that is just that.
But you’re much more beyond this, you know, so and I, I’m just always disturbed by the use of that word “shaman”.
Which is used quite a lot, and that steam of healing work, it’s, it’s overly used.
It’s an overly used word, term.
Hauxita: And I never encountered it.
That’s why I believe, I don’t call myself, I’m a shaman.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay, so what are people calling themselves like the medicine men and women Xerxes Voshmgir: in the indigenous cultures?
What are they calling themselves.
Hauxita: So, it depends on where you go, like, which country or area in South America.
But maybe they call themselves tighta which is the grandfather or curandero, curandera which is the healer, they call themselves page which is the one that takes care of the feeling of the village.
So these are the terms that I have encountered throughout the years, Hauxita: as well next to the people who don’t call themselves with no words.
They just have a name there, their name, you know their personal name.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay.
So it’s very interesting because I mean, when we talk about Sharma and see in the West, so the first people at least this is my impression the first people that we think off are South American or North American indigenous people who are the healers of the tribe.
Then secondly, there is a lot of people here in the West that call themselves shaman because they have done one education or the other of a sort.
So it’s really interesting that you say you never encountered the word of shaman in the indigenous cultures, but does it exist in Latin America and South America, in another context, because, Xerxes Voshmgir: when people go to South America, they usually refer to the visit if they go and do medicine work -they refer to visiting shaman or shaman center, shaman healing center or anything of that sort.
Is there other people calling themselves shamans that are not the original healers of tribes
So one thing I just want to add before I answer this is that use of the word, for example, “shaman center”, “I’m going to visit my shaman in South America.”
this term, it’s kind of a popular term to describe this whole realm, but is it a real term to do so?
And for your question, there is a lot of people calling themselves:
“I am a shaman here” in South America, outside of indigenous, religious and indigenous contexts.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay.
So what you’re basically saying is that it is a popular use of, Xerxes Voshmgir: or let’s say it’s a commercial use for Western tourists or also Eastern tourists to use the term shaman.
Hauxita: Yeah, I would say so.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay.
So in a way you could say, if someone calls himself shaman or refers to himself Sharman or herself shaman in South America, that basically you can be quite assured that this person is a, not really a shaman and be quiet, likely doing this out of commercial reasons.
Hauxita: Well, you always have to look at the specific case.
Who’s saying that and what is behind it, but the phenomenon Hauxita: of the term shaman is a worldwide one.
And yeah, often times it is connected to a commercial approach and a label “Hey, I’m a shaman, so you can trust me.
I’m going to hear you.”
And that’s not what it is.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay.
No, it’s very interesting because as I said, and I, I think that most people associated in a very different way than you referred to.
Also, I know people who are in the healing space, Xerxes Voshmgir: who have been to Latin America and they refer to also always to shamans.
So you’re actually the first person that explains this whole thing to me in this way.
And I find it very interesting.
So Xerxes Voshmgir: you also mentioned another thing that, Xerxes Voshmgir: when someone says that, Xerxes Voshmgir: or asks you what you do Xerxes Voshmgir: and then you answer with, Xerxes Voshmgir: one Xerxes Voshmgir: simple answer like, I am a carpenter, I’m a shaman, I’m a, Xerxes Voshmgir: consultant, counselor, whatever that you reduce yourself so how would you describe Xerxes Voshmgir: who you are, what you do, Xerxes Voshmgir: what your life is like, however you like to describe it.
Hauxita: Yeah, so the question, what do you do?
How your life like?
It’s a very interesting question.
Because it’s so many things.
Hauxita: First of all, I suppose that I’m a human being trying to live my life in a happy and healthy way in a holistic approach.
I have a strong and great passion for the jungle and indigenous culture, tradition, history, and I share information about a specific medicine from the Amazon rain forest here, which is a Kambo.
Kambo is a frog.
Indigenous people use it to treat a person for specific reasons.
So, I have a YouTube channel where I’m sharing some educational videos about the topic of Kambo medicine.
I see myself in that position that a responsibility I have because I believe in that medicine so much and I love it so much just to share information.
Hauxita: I’m also sharing the medicine, Hauxita: to people in one-on-one treatments, one-on-one ceremonies.
Besides that, Hauxita: I study a lot about the indigenous cultures that I’m interested in, Hauxita: by living with them.
And also when I’m not in the jungle, living with them and studying their languages, their body art their chantings, their healing songs, which I recorded.
So a lot of that rotates for me around studying the mythology and the cosmology of the indigenous people, which fulfills me because it’s like interwoven in everything I have experienced so far.
And another thing that I was about to start and then now we are in this new situation of worldwide lockdown,
is to look for land in the lowland jungle here in the north of Peru and to, to be able in a, in a community crowdfunding project, one day to buy land, to preserve it, to conserve it, to build a bigger project for the future, to be able to buy a big piece of land, maybe 10,000 hectar and be able to save that jungle from being destroyed.
Hauxita: If I buy it, a company cannot buy it and destroy it.
Hauxita: Ecuador now it just has sold a very big amount of Hauxita: Amazon rain forest in Ecuador.
I think it’s one third, one third of Amazon rainforest in Ecuador is sold now to China.
So, the reason why I wanted red is too, to give back to the jungle where I have received so much of my own life and so much healing and transformation.
This is what I’m, what I’m focusing.
But also I’m, I’m practicing Hauxita: kickboxing, which is another way of energy tour to move some things in life.
And, currently I just try to be present Hauxita: and that moment that we all are living in right now.
Xerxes Voshmgir: I would like to go a bit into Kambo medicine.
I’ve experienced it.
Xerxes Voshmgir: You initiated me in a way, and I think it’s a very potent medicine, perhaps, of all the medicines I’ve worked with.
It’s the one I, although there’s not as fancy as others, I like most.
And, Xerxes Voshmgir: I had, Xerxes Voshmgir: most important transformational processes with and it’s interesting, I know a lot of people who are in doing medicine work for many years, they haven’t done it, and they don’t have any interest to do it.
But, Xerxes Voshmgir: what I want to really ask you is, if you could share with us what Kambo medicine is and also give us maybe a picture of what it is beyond just, Xerxes Voshmgir: the, what it does to the body, but what it is in a bigger picture.
Hauxita: Yeah, sure.
So the Kambo is a term for the giant leaf frog that inhabits the Amazon basin here in South America.
The biological term is phyllomedusa bicolor.
It’s a night -active frog that lives high up in the trees and the indigenous people use its poison, its secretion already for a long time to either prepare the men of the tribe to go on a hunt or to heal something they call the dark heavy spirit that inhabits the system that has become an energy matter and therefore needs to get treated.
Yeah, to explain these things and then better.
The Kambo medicine for the indigenous people is warrior medicine because it’s connects you stronger to the spirits of the jungle and you can hear a better, you can smell better, you can see better.
You’re not that hungry, you’re not that thirsty.
So going on a hand for a couple of days and nights, it’s less of a problem, but it’s also giving you this center of being focused and specific warrior attitudes.
On the other hand, when we talk about healing, a person helping a person to get rid of a specific energy Hauxita: that is a process to, to help the person release something that has accumulated in the system.
The way the medicine, gets applied is by burning the first layer of the skin of small dots in specific parts of the body that are connected to, so to say.
The lymphatic system and its entrance gateways and there the person receives a few dots of that poison.
Because in nature the Kambo frog is releasing that poison to fend off predators, like a snake tries to eat the frog, and so the poison gets released in the snake.
It’s a survival mechanism.
When it comes to the treatment, it’s important to stick with a specific diet and also a fasting, fasting, before you receive the medicine, that you receive in early morning in the jungle context
You have to drink on the empty stomach a specific amount of water or Kaisuma.
Kaisuma is, Hauxita: a beverage indigenous people make out of the Yuka or Manukrut which is kind of the jungle potato -it’s a very important supplement for them so you drink this on an empty stomach and you received the medicine, it’s a quite quick and strong process and what is happening is that the medicine doesn’t contain any psychoactive alkaloids, but what it does, it contains peptides, Hauxita: a wide range of peptides that is activating and refreshing and healing your own peptide range in the body.
It’s activating your lymphatic system, boosting your lymphatic system.
It’s cleaning it hours and the way you react from the outside can look quiet and intimidating or strong or intense because you have a very strong physical experience.
First of all, with it, you get hot, the heart is beating faster.
You might swell up in the face.
You might look like a frog.
You might even swell up from the inside.
You feel a pressure in your upper body, pulsating behind your ears, you can have different sensations.
Hauxita: in that respect, you can also have some pains in the body.
You can have some emotional process going on.
And what’s going to happen after a few minutes is that you usually gonna start vomiting.
Kambo is a fire medicine.
So with the, the liquid that we are drinking on an empty stomach, we’re helping it to come out.
Usually diarrea is also part a part of it.
This is the initial process of purging, so to say, it’s not just on a scientific level, boosting your system and Hauxita: regenerating your cells and helping you to, to heal specific ailments like chronic diseases.
But what it is doing is also taking out an energy that has become something chronic in your system, maybe a depression.
Maybe a sadness, maybe not knowing where to go in life.
Personally, for me, the Kambo medicine gives you a direction for your life.
It’s, it’s a very gentle and loving medicine.
The spirit of the frog, even if the process might sound and look intense, but the spirit of the Kambo becomes your friends and your guide, and we’ll be there for you too, to help you maneuver and navigate for your specific intention to work with said medicine.
This is how I proceeded personally.
And the, process itself, of course, demands from you to a specific way of commitment to, okay.
Hauxita: This feels intense, but I’m not gonna panic now.
And it’s important to breathe and stay connected and go for it and all like receive it as blessing and, and be strong in that moment and be aware of what is going on because it can be an attendance experience, which can bring people to the edge of not knowing what to do with that or panicking or having some fear or wanting it to be over fast.
But once you connect with it, your work with it also will change Hauxita: on a, on a longer term because you then know how you’re gonna react and all of this, and you would be able to perceive more of the energetic and spiritual benefits of that medicine.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Maybe I’d like to add from my personal experience with Kambo, I think my, my first session I took, maybe, one hour and there was a lot of resistance against what was going on in the process.
I have to say I was also in a quite special situation.
I was just separated from the woman I was in relationship with for 11 years and eight years married and we were just about to get divorced.
And this medicine really helped me to process a lot and it was interesting how
the first few times actually, there was so much resistance to go into the process and to purge.
And then really after a couple of times, suppose whole process took 10 minutes.
And the one hour process of more, of course, much more intense because it’s an intense physical process.
And that’s also the reason I feel like, I don’t know what your experience is from the people, you know.
But I feel like: Because it’s just the intense process and doesn’t have any psychoactive or obvious psychoactive effects that a lot of people don’t want to do, it.
Because it’s not, as I said before, I would call it fancy, but, Xerxes Voshmgir: I can say it was my personal experience: Although it’s so intense, one of the best medicines or actually one of the best is, Xerxes Voshmgir: not framing it right I would say it’s, it’s, it’s the most valuable medicine I have personally experienced in my life.
So what’s your experience with, Xerxes Voshmgir: people, Xerxes Voshmgir: who don’t have the Kambo experience or have combo experience maybe in connection to other Xerxes Voshmgir: to other medicines, for example, I’ve heard they often do it after Ayahuasca sessions.
What’s your experience as Kambo being as a medicine, a standalone medicine on the one hand, and at the other hand, when it comes to the resistance that people have against the medicine in general to try it.
And like in my case, the first few times were really fought against the medicine, not allowing myself to purge.
And I guess I’m not the only one that has this experience.
And that has this type of approach within the first few sessions.
So in general.
What I perceive is that Kambo is a underestimated medicine in general when it comes to the sacred medicines.
It is always seen as: “Yeah, you can clean out toxins with their medicine and, Hauxita: it’s good for your health, but that’s not giving credit to this, to this complexity and to the capacity that the medicine is sharing with the people.
Hauxita: Another thing is that a lot of people hear stories.
They hear a lot of stories about people who have received a medicine and a lot of traumatic experiences shared.
A lot of people having had, having had bad experiences with this medicine.
Hauxita: And there is a lot of people out there who have experiences
that are shocking to listen to and I believe it has something to do that maybe people do not understand this medicine entirely who share it.
Not all of them, but there is some risks to health when it comes to this medicine.
There are counter indications when it comes to work with this medicine, because it is so strong, the system, you have to be careful with
medical counter indications, Hauxita: pharmaceutical, chronic diseases and all of that.
So, that is, that is one part of it.
Xerxes Voshmgir: I’m sorry to interrupt you: It is actually a dangerous medicine if not applied properly because it’s a poison, isn’t it?
Hauxita: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Xerxes Voshmgir: I mean, for the people that don’t know it at all, I mean, the way you talk about it now is there can be problems, but in reality it’s, it’s a poison and not applied properly.
It can kill you, isn’t it?
Hauxita: Of course it is.
It can lead to, so reactions in your body, Hauxita: that can lead to a heart attack or you not being able to breathe any more, having an anaphylactic shock.
And that of course leads to death.
So it’s a poison, but you need to know how much of that poison how much you have to use from that poison.
Yeah, like the quantity, but also how do you apply it.
Like: What’s the pathway?
What’s the, what’s the, what’s the weight work with the medicine?
So it’s not just that easy.
It’s not that: I’m going to drink that and then I’m going to purge and it’s all going to be good.
It’s not like that, you know, Hauxita: there are also counter indications of other sacred medicines.
It’s not that Kambo is the only one that has counter indications or, or can risk, Hauxita: your life in the specific moments.
There are also other medicines, but to before that you not going to be put at risk, you have to talk to the person beforehand and, and go through a specific checklist of counter indications and really ask those specific questions, Hauxita: and, and go into debt.
It’s not just something that you did you share.
When it comes to the reference that you gave to having resistance and blockage, oftentimes we are coming into a process where we want to heal something with Kambo coming from a specific consciousness about ourselves.
So for example.
Hauxita: very simple example and a lot of people will be able to connect to it.
I’m coming out of relationship and I’m heartbroken and I just feel terrible.
So they want to feel better again.
But what is behind that relationship and what the relationship is triggering in the process of separation.
It’s connected to things that are even older than that relationship.
Maybe some experiences you had in your childhood or teenage time, even some experiences that you are not so aware of right now or that have kind of moved from consciousness to subconsciousness.
So resistance, having a resistance in your system towards the process or the medicine, is something very normal because you have been functioning.
The way you have been functioning and feeling for a long time, and then there’s something coming into your system is like shaking, shaking it a lot, but not on a, on the way of, on having a vision of, you know, something beautiful like with other antiorganic medicines and approaches and it’s beautiful.
No, it’s like taking you and shaking you up and it’s really intense.
And then your cellular intelligencies so to say.
And the vibration in your body, which is used to that kind of level of vibration now gets shaken up.
And what comes next is something else, but we are holding onto it nationally because we have never learned something else and we are used to it.
We are used to function in a specific way.
And when you’re used to something, it’s a comfort zone, so it’s hard to get out of it.
It’s hard to move out of it.
It’s hard to, it’s a challenge too.
Change your life and really face it.
So of course it’s normal and natural and there’s no big deal about this.
To feel a resistance or to have a resistance, the resistance of the blockage is showing for the process.
What is important is this medicine is also not for everybody.
Not every sacred medicine is for everybody out there.
You really have to feel the call.
And even if you are aware of: “Wow, it’s difficult process and I have resistance!”
And “Wow, that was, that was a crazy ride!”
And, but still, if you feel like you want to continue working with it, if you have the call and you have the: “Yes!”
Because it’s your free choice to work with this medicine, your work with it.
But if she should like that, that’s not for me.
No one should be forced to to work with that medicine or with any other medicine.
Xerxes Voshmgir: what I wanted to also ask you in the respect of, Xerxes Voshmgir: any medicine, sacred medicine and, Xerxes Voshmgir: in specific now or Kambo, because we talked about Kambo now, is: The role of the dieta.
Also perhaps connected to the dangers of the of medicines.
So maybe to give you some, some more context why I’m also interested in that.
I mean: What I hear sometimes when people, sending messages on Facebook or other platforms, email, whatever.
Saying: “Yeah, we still have one spot or one, one person can still join this Kambo retreat that starts tomorrow or in two days.
And, Xerxes Voshmgir: what I know from my personal work with you, is that dieta has a very important role, or is it a role that you give it to the dieta or is that your experience that you have from the jungle?
So I’d be interested what the role of dieta is, Xerxes Voshmgir: how important it is if it’s just optional or not.
When it comes to preparing for medicine, Xerxes Voshmgir: rituals taking sacred medicines.
Please, Xerxes Voshmgir: if you could give us some context.
Hauxita: Yeah, sure.
So let’s talk about this, the concept of dieta.
First of all, so people can understand a little bit about this or the diet, so to say.
So, when I started working with the sacred medicines in the Peruvian rainforest, I was following a specific tradition of healing and in that specific tradition, it was not just about drinking Ayahuasca nighttime ceremonies with the healer.
But also to do a specific dieta.
This is how they call it here: The diet.
With one specific plant I did a lot of plants diets throughout the years.
So what the framework is that you are deep in the jungle.
You sit in your own wooden huts alone.
You have no electricity, no Wifi of course you should not in very strict dietas, you should not read like books or listen to the music.
What do you do the whole day is like, well, you are in the jungle and you are with yourself and you’re meditating and you drink either daily or in a specific rhythm.
The extract or the tea of a plant or a tree.
It might be the leaf, the flower, the roots of the bark.
Whatever part of that plants is in their tradition of the medicine
will be prepared for you by the healer.
The person who provides that Hauxita: healing and the medicine.
You will start drinking this, this plant medicine.
And the reason why you do that, you have usually a specific intention: Either the person asks you what you want to work on, or heal, or they, they don’t even talk to you and they choose for you the plan because they, they know what you need, they see where you have to start.
Because in the Amazon rainforest, you can have plant dietas with, I believe, more than 500 plants, you know?
So it’s, it’s a lot of options.
So you, so you drink these medicines and the spirits of the plants, which in which in the proven tradition here is the, the teacher.
It becomes your teacher will come to you in dreams in the nighttime, Hauxita: will talk to you throughout the day, will show itself in specific teachings.
So what you do is: You enter the spirit world and you start communicating with the plants.
And the plant is going to share its heart and its teachings and its understanding with you.
But have to keep some specifics, big rules for that.
So, there are dietas you can only eat a specific fish that only eats specific things.
And if you eat another fish that doesn’t go with the vibration of the plant and you break the dieta and it’s not going to work anymore.
So the general rules are set up is that you are as I experienced it I’m not allowed to talk to another person, which is not the person who makes my food or the healer.
So everyone else, I’m not allowed to talk to.
Hauxita: Or I’m not allowed to come closer than 20 meters.
I’m not allowed to give hugs during that time.
I am not allowed to leave my, my hut in the jungle.
I can only eat very specific foods.
Usually, the taste is without any spices or something, like, you know, like exciting to eat.
It’s like very plain and basic.
Some veggies, of course, no alcohol, no cakes, no artificial sugar.
All of that stuff is cut out.
And in that tradition you can work with the sacred tobacco plan to accompany the plant
dieta this is how I did it, for example Hauxita: but you are not allowed to work with other medicines during the time and after the time so the dieta starts before you received the medicine, during the process, while you are with this medicine it’s about what do you put in your system?
Which energies and vibrations do you put in your system.
There are dietas you’re not allowed to masturbate Hauxita: and of course not to have sex, not to mix your energy or to lose your energy.
And then you have to keep a specific post-dieta.
And that differs from, from person to person you’re going to work with for 10 days or months after you have ingested that medicine.
To maintain your alliance with that spirit and to show the respect and be able to keep that medicine isn’t healthy in your system.
There are also counter indications.
The stronger the the plant medicine dieta gets, the riskier a counter indication with breaking the diet can be.
Yeah, so I heard a story
that by accident, someone was eating something during the dieta and that was causing Hauxita: a toxic interaction with the plant.
The person was ingesting on the dieta and the person nearly died.
So this, this is how serious it can get.
And before that, it’s about losing the support of the spirits.
Or the, the, the alliance that you are entering, the friendship, the sharing that you enter with the spirit, you’re going to, you’re going to lose that.
So to, be able to keep Hauxita: the teachings and the spirit becoming your guide and becoming your ally in your system beyond the time that you are drinking the medicine.
The rules of those traditions are.
Important than if you choose to work with one person, you have to respect their rules.
And so when it comes to Kambo I’m sorry, this is a bit a long answer, but it’s, it’s important to explain that
so when it comes to Kambo, and I believe the best thing you can do is like just observe how the indigenous people live.
There are different ways in different indigenous tribes with Kambo medicine.
Some tribes are very strict about the dieta.
Some tribes are not.
There are differences and there are similarities.
Hauxita: What I have been doing is I have observed it.
I have been observing the context of how they are, they are, Hauxita: doing when they receive Kambo what’s the rotation here with food and energies and other medicines and so on and so on.
And from my own experience, nearly doing planted as for two years in isolation in the, in the Peruvian jungle, I have created my own approach working with Kambo.
So if you want to receive combo from me, you should follow my dieta, my diet rules.
Because this is what I believe in is the most effective to prepare your system and maintain your system to receive that medicine.
Just the simple example: Kambo as any other medicine is a sacred medicine.
There’s no endless supply of it.
It’s a sacred medicine.
It’s not endless frogs living on the planet.
We have to be very aware of what we’re doing here when we are receiving this medicine.
So, if you choose to work with Kambo, it’s important to check-in with yourself which habits you were having in your daily life, which have not been serving you.
For example, smoking a lot of cigarettes, drinking a lot of coffee.
Do you really think that’s healthy?
So with doing Kambo, we have a chance to break through it and see what’s behind that addictive behavior, for example.
If you work with a medicine that is cleaning your lymphatic system and boosting your immune system, why would you after that
drink alcohol or have a sweet cake?
It doesn’t make any sense to me.
It doesn’t make any sense.
And people might feel like that, I’m very strict on this and yeah, I am!
Because I have I heard or I hear people saying: “Oh, Kambo doesn’t work on me.”, but the question is, yeah, what’s the environment that you’re creating for this medicine to enter your system?
If you receive a Kambo treatment and you are having the chance to really meditate with yourself into yourself.
And then an hour later you go out to party and you’re so open energetically, and then you also price why you feel a bit weird after that night.
Because you mix the energy with other energies.
So, we have to learn to sit back in silence and in meditation and to allow something to enter our system without mixing our own energy with other energies and keeping a specific way because it’s not unhealthy to keep a healthy diet doing Kambo and afterwards.
Because what you want is, you want to heal something for yourself and for that reason, you want to meet yourself in connection with the spirit of the frog.
With the least disturbances as possible.
And that is why I’m so strict with the diet.
On the other hand too, we are talking about peptides.
These are protein strings.
There’s food, like dairy products that break the effects of specific peptides of the Kambo medicine in your system.
So, if you receive Kambo and an hour later you have specific dairy products, it’s going to stop the process of Hauxita: peptide function in your system due to that due to that counter indication.
I mean, you’re not going to die, but you’re going to lose it.
You’re going to lose what you were working on.
You want to interrupt the process and for me to make sure that I can, I can, or I have the space to, to share that medicine and that the medicine can unfold its full potential and its full power and full healing capacity.
We have to create a space for that and we have to keep that space and not just for a day because it’s a sacred, it’s a sacred work.
And we are usually coming from the Western world meeting or you know, wanting, wishing for healing.
So we come from our Western worlds where we are not really in that flow of
stepping back, but we are more in the flow of “Yeah, we are consuming and we are receiving and we are not really questioning all of that.”
But working with a sacred medicine from an old acient tradition of indigenous people, we also have to take a moment and question our way of consuming energies and consuming food because maybe both don’t go together.
Xerxes Voshmgir: So the way I understand it after what you’ve explained now is that basically there’s this level of, with the dieta of the physical effect.
But then apart from that, there’s also a level of committing to a certain type of medicine work on the one hand.
And at the other hand, there is a level of you talked about “respecting the spirits” and there’s also this level when it comes to the dieta.
Do I understand it correctly.
Hauxita: Yeah, exactly.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay, and, Xerxes Voshmgir: could you explain, I mean, a lot of people don’t have Xerxes Voshmgir: a lot of an idea about spirits.
Could you explain how you understand spirits when you talk about plant medicine, sacred medicine, and also basically when you talk about, I would say things that are going on in general.
Because spirits is a most likely something that many people, they cannot, they don’t associate anything with other than just like fantasy movies or whatever.
Hauxita: Yeah, sure.
So, I would say to start simple, you Xerxes, you have a spirit.
You have a soul, you have a heart.
You are your own essence.
You are an energy vibration.
You are a frequency and you’re rediating this and the way you appear, is, you have a body in this threedimensional world.
But inside and around that body, there are so many more things like energy, vibration, aura frequency, your soul, your heart, and all of that.
Things you can’t like touch with the hand or see with the eyes, but you can feel them.
And even if you sit there and you are in silence, I can feel you because you’re radiationg something.
So for me it’s like that with the plans or the beings.
You can also say maybe instead of the “spirit”, you can say an entity.
A specific form of vibration and frequency that not necessarily is to be like seen and analyzed in the 3D, but it around us.
Because as we know, there are different frequencies existing.
When you look into music vibrations, all of this is quite obvious.
When we Hauxita: take a a cup of water and we, for one, we say nice things to that cup of water.
It’s gonna under the microscope.
We can see the transformation of molecules.
All of these fingers.
If we talk bad to the plant for a week, the plant is going to, like, feel sad, you know?
So every thing has a spirit, even if it’s a stone where I’m living here in the Indian mountains and through the mountains here are sacred to the indigenous.
They call them Apus because they have a spirit.
If you want to go on a hike, if you want to ask for support for your life or just to show respect, you’re praying to the, to the spirit of the mountain.
With Coca leaves, you give an offering.
This is the way you do.
Hauxita: people here believe in the sacredness of their land, Hauxita: as well as in the jungle, because everywhere is spirits and we have to respect it as well.
So this is how I would describe that.
Xerxes Voshmgir: So, Xerxes Voshmgir: I would like to go a little bit into your background.
Xerxes Voshmgir: could you please tell me why you do what you do?
Why do I do what I do?
Hauxita: I love the jungle and I believe in trust in the teachings of the jungle that I have received.
And the same for the indigenous way and the indigenous knowledge.
I have deep gratitude inside myself for everything I have experienced in the jungle.
And I would like to give back to Pachamama, to mother earth in a sustainable way for what I have received, the healing I have received, and the way my life has changed.
And so, there was one journey, I think it was three years ago.
I was traveling through the rain forest and I was praying to, the jungle that I am surrendering to, to her teachings and wherever she’s going to take me in life, I’m going to follow.
So, I committed to a specific flow and I’m in a specific flow.
The life I’m living now, it was never planed.
Hauxita: I never made a schedule for this.
Hauxita: There was an inner and outer revolution happening in my life, and, and I’ve been going with a flow, and I do love to share what I believe in.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay, so you talked about the inner and outer revolutions.
I would like to ask you, Xerxes Voshmgir: is that what you would call a turning point in your life and what’s, Xerxes Voshmgir: what is the background of, of this whole thing?
Xerxes Voshmgir: Or let’s say in another way: What is the background that it came to the point that you went to the jungle and what’s the big picture of this situation?
Being an inner and outer revolution?
So, it was 2013 that I was going into the jungle for the first time for a couple of months, and the reason was to find a cure for my breast cancer, to make it very short and simple.
Hauxita: I was diagnosed 10 years for the first time, and I was going through some hospital treatments and a lot of hospital analisis and conversations with doctors in the field.
And I was just not satisfied with their approach.
And on the other hand, my health state got much worse during the time of hospital treatment.
Hauxita: So I just felt like, not fully seen and I’m very disturbed by the, and energy in the hospitals and by the, the treatments and, Hauxita: the whole way.
Hauxita: At that time I was in a relationship and we had a dog together together, and our dog got sick with breast cancer.
So what happened is that, Hauxita: the conventional doctor said, your dog going to die within a week, needs operation and stuff like this.
But we, through some circumstances, we found out about a, Hauxita: naturopathic veterinarian doctor for our dog.
So she, she made.
A natural remedy out of very simple, Hauxita: ingredients for our dog.
And within a week, everything was fine again.
So I started connecting with this woman who also had a background with breast cancer.
That’s why she changed.
She changed her life.
That put me on the path.
At the time, I was still living in Berlin, Hauxita: to work with alternative natural medicines that were available in Europe.
Hauxita: Different, different categories, changing my food diet, things didn’t get better, but they didn’t get worse either.
Hauxita: And then through another circumstance, a dear friend of mine, he told me about plants in the Amazon rainforest that are cytotoxic, that can kill cancer cells.
And from there I was researching and I was having dreams about meeting the healer that I made later met in the jungle.
I had dreams eight month before I went to the jungle of that healer.
I was never in the jungle.
I never met him.
But when I arrived there, eventually eight months later, it was all like image dreams that I had.
So being the first time in the jungle, 2013, Hauxita: coming from the context of living in a Western city.
That was, Hauxita: that was changing everything.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Would you like to elaborate on your experience in the jungle?
The first time you went to the jungle, what did happen?
What did it change?
Xerxes Voshmgir: What was the effect.
Hauxita: Yeah, so just, Hauxita: living in the thick lowland jungle is an experience in itself because you can really feel the forest of our planet and mother earth and just to live in the jungle and to be surrounded by so much life and so much vibration.
So, so much biodiversity when it comes to plant life and insects and reptiles.
It was just, it was just mind blowing.
I was never in an environment like this before, and I don’t think there’s another environment like that Hauxita: on the planet that is so thick and dense with life.
And, Hauxita: just solidly to be out of all my previous contexts.
You know, like there was no, there was no, like a civilization shattered, so to say, like, no phone ringing, no internet, no distractions, just me in that nature.
So, to have the time to observe that nature was teaching in itself because finally I understood what photosynthesis meant.
I never understood it in school.
I was like, I’m biology.
I was like, what is she talking about?
My teacher, you know?
But later on now in the jungle, what I have experienced, and now I understand it, of course, and understanding what life and death means.
Observing one thing is the other thing, and it’s about survival.
It’s about pure survival and to live in the jungle while a thunder is happening.
And, Hauxita: the trees around your heart are falling down into the ground and might even hit you.
Your heart, gives you another perspective of the human being in its context on that planet, because we as a species are quite new to the jungle.
Maybe 20,000 years ago or 25,000 years ago, 30,000 years ago, the human species was introduced to the jungle environment.
But, Hauxita: the jungle as it is, exists for millions and millions and millions of years.
So I was, I was connecting to that forest.
Of, of everything.
And then on the other hand, what happened is I started to drink for the first time a sacred ancient medicines.
And that was, that was absolutely changing everything too.
That and that healing I received, Hauxita: the understanding to be able to face specific things.
All that realm in itself was just a very new thing.
And then of course when I went back to Berlin after this, it was impossible to continue life as it was as I had it before.
After you have an experience like this.
And that was fully immersing myself into the jungle and I w and I was bringing time and it was everything.
I was like scared.
I had fear, I was happy.
I was enchanted.
I felt liberated.
Hauxita: All kinds of emotions because for me, the reason to do this journey, the first journey was to heal.
Hauxita: my illness, Hauxita: for the purpose to live long and happy.
It’s, it’s a question about life and death why I did that.
So I was fully going into, into it and it was ripping me apart and putting me together in a new way.
And then of course, everything was new and then everything changed.
Xerxes Voshmgir: what does it actually mean?
You went to the jungle.
You were, I mean, how can be imagined that you were alone.
And how, I mean, what does it mean?
In fact, you arrive in Cusco or wherever and then you take a tour or you take a guide or you get connected to people who take you there and then they’re what?
What did you do?
Where did you stay?
How did all these practical things in the way?
How can we imagine that.
I mean, I guess you didn’t just live in the jungle under the tree on your own.
Find a spot, and then…
Hauxita: I mean, you can try.
There’s a little space.
How did it start?
I had dreams about this healer.
Hauxita: as I said, I was still in Berlin.
I was doing some internet research.
I found a name on a forum that was discussing visiting healers and the Amazon rainforest from people who have been there before.
I resonated with one name.
I, I don’t have any idea.
I didn’t have any idea about all of this.
You know, I didn’t even speak Spanish at that time.
So zero language skills.
He, this healer, he has a website, he has a small place in the jungle, like a, like a healing center.
He’s calling it, Hauxita: where he welcomes people who want to work with him because originally he’s from deeper inside the jungle, but he lives with his family in the city of Iquitos, which is jungle city and Peru.
So I use the translator system.
Hauxita: to contact him in an email.
And I think at the time he had someone helping him was this digital stuff because in the jungle is no internet.
So, they were sending me an answer.
And he just said, you are welcome.
He, Hauxita: he told, he told me that the day I would arrive at the airport, I need to give him my flight details.
That would be a driver picking me up.
I booked my flight, I gave him my details.
I arrived in Iquitos airport and then, Hauxita: a driver who’s a friend of mine now, he, he picked me up and he dropped me at a random spot on, on the road, kilometer 48, outside of Iquitos and next to a small village.
Hauxita: And there was this indigenous boy sitting who was waiting for me.
That I couldn’t speak to because I didn’t know the language and he took my stuff.
He helped me carry my things, and he was walking into the jungle from there.
So, and that was it.
And I had to follow him.
Hauxita: and the night before it was raining a lot.
I was not prepared for this jungle hikes.
So I was arriving, you know, with like white sneakers after 48, 40 hour airplane trip from, from Europe.
And we had to wait through the water because the bridge was over flooded and on my left, like rotten pineapples in the water.
One snake I was seeing, Hauxita: I was totally overwhelmed.
The hike took like one and a half hours because it was difficult to walk there because of the rain.
And, Hauxita: I w I couldn’t even like follow him that fast as he was walking.
And I had to carry my stuff over my hat.
Hauxita: and I nearly slipped, Hauxita: walking through the water.
The water was up to here.
Hauxita: but there was a old woman coming my way from the other side, carrying like rice on the head, and she wouldn’t stick.
So she gave me the wooden stick and I could easily walk to the other side.
And then I turned around, but she was gone already.
And I never understood was she real?
She’s helping spirit.
I arrived in that little clearing in the jungle with some hats there.
There’s a temple, there are some hots for people to live, and there is a kitchen and there’s an excess to the river.
And so the boy, he dropped my things at one heart and then I think later that day or next day, the the healer arrived.
I couldn’t talk to language, but somehow we communicated and.
Yeah, that was my house.
That was my home for that while, and I started learning the language and at the time, of course, because there was no other choice and we started working together.
In general, when I do these trips, Hauxita: one thing leads to another.
Now it’s a bit more complex what I’m doing with visiting the tribes in Brazil.
Hauxita: but I do it mostly alone.
All of these journeys.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay.
So basically now you with the different tribes, you How can I imagine you find out, you hear your talk to other people.
Who was it the tribes, and then you tried to go there?
How can we imagine that?
How does this.
Hauxita: So the first time that, yeah, so, so the first time that I, when to Brazil.
Some years ago to visit the tribes.
My intention was that I want to work with the tribes and go deeper in the tribal tradition with the medicines.
And then how I ended up where I ended up in the first place was a quiet, interesting, Hauxita: meant to be situation again, like the one I described with the healer who I was dreaming about in that dream eight months before I even arrived.
And then everyone finger was falling into place.
So I pulled out the intention that I want to visit the tribes in Brazil.
Then one thing again was leading to the other.
I’m going to spare you this story because it’s quite a long one again, but it was like one thing happened and then the other thing happened.
Things you would never expect, and then.
For Brazil, it’s important to contact the Funai, which is a government organization, which takes care of the indigenous peoples rights and land rights.
Or if you want to visit a tribe, it’s good to meet them first so they know you’re in the area and they can assist you in your journey.
So I did this.
I contacted the Funai and they helped me out a lot.
They connected me to one tribe that then I couldn’t make the two very deeply, and they arranged, Hauxita: the communication for me.
Hauxita: but I had to go get there myself.
And, and also then at that time when I went to Brazil, didn’t speak one word, Portuguese.
So I was starting from scratch again.
staying with that first tribe.
Hauxita: the Puyanawa people that are very dear to me.
I met the other tribe people there, and they were inviting me to the villages.
So one thing was leading to the other, and then I’m arranging my travels alone.
With, Hauxita: you know, like both the buying gasoline and then going there.
So this is usually how I’m doing.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay.
And, Xerxes Voshmgir: I mean, you know, we refer in the West of the jungle to be the wildest place and that you have to survive.
It’s Xerxes Voshmgir: you survive or the other survives, Xerxes Voshmgir: survival of the fittest and so on.
Xerxes Voshmgir: is it that.
Dangerous, and especially as a woman, I mean, how can I imagine this is, I would think it’s really dangerous.
Xerxes Voshmgir: in general, the jungle and then also traveling alone as a woman, going to different tribes, isn’t there.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Certain problems, Xerxes Voshmgir: aggression, rape, Xerxes Voshmgir: How would you say?
Xerxes Voshmgir: Is it something that you really have to be dedicated to Xerxes Voshmgir: or is it fairly easy to do this type of trips?
It sounds really a bit, you know, Xerxes Voshmgir: dangerous.
What do you describe?
Xerxes Voshmgir: Well, complicated, at least.
Hauxita: I mean, you don’t do this stuff if you don’t want to.
You, you, you gotta be committed to doing that.
So of course, my story is a bit different because I do it alone all the time.
And so maybe I’m supposed to do that and this is my calling.
But I never had problems ever in all these years.
Not one problem.
I was never robbed.
I was never raped.
Hauxita: And the thing with the lowland jungle in itself is it’s dangerous.
There are spiders that are dangerous that are there snakes.
There’s Jaguars, there’s all kinds of things going on in the jungle.
And you’ve got to be aware when you are in the lowerland jungle.
I mean, you’ve got to be careful.
I was sick, Hauxita: with some jungle diseases throughout the years that are no fun.
That can kill you.
Like a Malaria, Oh, Chikungunya virus.
Hauxita: that brought me to the edge as well.
Hauxita: the jungle is a living entity and it’s about life and death and you are in it.
Hauxita: so there is a risk, Hauxita: traveling to the lowland jungle and getting sick with something definitely, or getting like bitten or stung or whatever.
You need to be careful.
As much as you can.
This is one thing.
Hauxita: The other thing, when it comes to, Hauxita: to the context, I, because I’m alone, I’m kind of, how can I say, positioning myself in a specific energy, right?
I’m oftentimes observing and.
I respect the rules of the village that I’m in.
Hauxita: I’m, I’m more in the background for us when I’m arriving for the first time when I told him all the people, right?
It’s, it’s important that, I mean, I’m not showing off with a big fat camera and technology or equipment because it’s, it’s altering them.
You gotta you just, it’s gotta be careful.
Like, Hauxita: I’m also not like.
Leaving my credit card laying around somewhere.
Hauxita: of course not.
I mean, there’s some common sense when you travel to these places that you take care of yourself and stay safe.
What I, I’m always trying is understand the language and learn the language and speak the language.
The language is important.
An important bridge that overcomes xenophobia.
Hauxita: because still I’m white and the current situation as it is here in South America with, Hauxita: already indigenous people in Brazil being sick with the Coronavirus and the old indigenous trauma getting activated by the white people, bringing the diseases like it was with measles and smallpox.
He’s very current.
It’s there, it’s real.
And a lot of indigenous people.
And they’ll just have fooled themselves and self care and teen right now.
So they locked down dead villages.
No visitors are allowed.
So I don’t know how the future around that will develop.
So we got to see.
But there is a lot of, I heard of a lot of aggression in some jungle cities and Peru towards white people.
So I don’t know how my future with traveling to the jungle and the indigenousness will change upon this current situation, or when will it come back to it’s normality.
Well, I’m always, I was always careful and I never felt threatened.
The only thing that happens is maybe that and indigenous person is interested in you as a love partner or wanting to marry you.
This is, this is what I’ve experienced.
Which is, which can happen, right?
Hauxita: this is the only thing I’ve ever experienced, but other than that, I never had problems.
Hauxita: it is actually for some very modern tribe.
Hauxita: it’s not that big deal.
If people come visit them, it’s not a big deal.
If you have someone who’s arranging a trip like this, Hauxita: to get there.
It’s actually for the westernized tribes who are used to working with white people.
It’s not a big deal if it’s more like a remote thing.
Hauxita: did you want to do on your own?
Like I usually do.
Hauxita: you gotta you gotta have a specific mindset for that.
Hauxita: but there’s a lot of.
Shamanic healing centers, Hauxita: all, all over the Amazon that are arranging all your trip from airport to hotel to jungle and back.
You know, so people who book, like hitting retreats in the Amazon rainforest usually never have a problem with getting there and getting back because they’re taken care of.
Xerxes Voshmgir: what I hear increasingly is that like shamanism medicine work, Xerxes Voshmgir: well, work with the sacred medicines in South America has become a true business.
Xerxes Voshmgir: what, what’s your experience, what you can, can you see, which affects those?
You said there is tribes to the more modern open to Westerners, Xerxes Voshmgir: organizing trips, everything.
Xerxes Voshmgir: So how do you see the whole situation with the sacred medicine work Xerxes Voshmgir: in Peru, in Brazil and other countries?
How do you perceive it?
And also Xerxes Voshmgir: what.
Do you experience in the respect of which effect does the influence of medicine work with?
I would call it medicine tourists.
I’m half on the tribes on the culture.
The end is a very current and interesting topic.
There is a lot of, let’s see, it’s called medicine tourism going on now.
People coming down to South America to work with the sacred medicines because they want to heal something and to comfort the Western mind and approach.
You can’t just like say, yeah, just come to my place.
You got to meet them in the Western ways.
So there’s a, it’s a lot about money.
Hauxita: when it comes to medicine work, it’s a lot of money there that the local people will never see.
And it’s also a lot about creating a common for, for the Western visitors.
So in the jungle you can have fully equipped toilet and shower as you know it from back home in UK.
So there’s a lot happening to create a safe, comforting space for the visitors.
And usually the people who own these places are not even indigenous people.
They’re like people from the Western world who are buying a lot of land in the jungle, and then they have the investment to build a healing center.
And then they employ, there are managers who speak different languages and they have a, I don’t know.
A lot of local people working for them.
But the question is, do the local people really get the money that they deserve for their work?
And usually it’s not that, and do the local healers who get like hired by those healing centers really get paid the way they should, and usually it’s not like that.
So it’s, it’s not uncommon to pay 3.000 US Dollars now for 10 days Ayahuasca work in the jungle.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay.
Hauxita: And that’s a problem because, for example, here in Peru for the last years.
There was a lot of Ayahuasca like Ayahuasca I always got harvested, Chacruna harvested, used for making the medicines, and you need quite a lot of the plants itself to make the medicine that you can drink.
But who’s replanting, who’s regrowing.
How sustainable is this all?
Is this really sustainable?
Because a lot of people, they want to hear them.
They hear of Ayahuasca and they book a retreat online and then they go travel to Iquitos.
They get picked up to have a intense 10 days in the jungle.
They go back home.
But they don’t know.
In the meantime, what does happen behind the scenes is that really sustainable for the whole whole, whole process of healing for themselves?
If the indigenous and local people get exploited here, and if no one is regrowing Ayahuasca is, is your healing really that more important?
But usually people don’t even think about it and they don’t know because it doesn’t appear to them.
And when it comes to, to.
Well, the money is definitely changing the indigenous, Hauxita: cosmology and view and even their connection to tradition.
And that is, it’s not easy for me to accept that I have been observing it and observing it more and more, kind of questioning my relationships.
My collaborations for the future with the, with the tribes too, because I don’t want to be part of it.
Hauxita: Because money makes life easier for them.
You know, back in the days when the first white people visited indigenous uncontacted tribes, they were leaving behind like gifts, like a Machete.
Well, something like this, things they never had.
So the, there are some like anthropology document reports did you can read.
And then the, the uncontacted tribes found those gifts and they started using these new tools and they left behind all way that they were doing.
So this is how progress comes into a civilization, of course, and this is nothing you can change and nothing you will stop.
But there are tribes in Brazil that are popular.
For medicine, tourism.
They are also people of those tribes are traveling worldwide to share ceremonies.
It’s very common thing.
Now a day, I have very high prices for visitors.
You easily can pay 1000 us dollar a week with one of the tribes, and usually it’s important to see what do they do with the money?
Do they invested into the village.
do they improve the condition of the village or to the invested into a project?
Or do they just buy a new phone in town or do they just buy like fast food in the city and come back to the village and start eating fast food now and step up to stop hunting?
You know, or they buy a flat screen TV in the, in the city they needed generated by a generator.
Then they have electricity in the diverge and then lose the old ways.
Are they really connected to the sacred medicine path or they are now just interested in the money.
So there’s a lot of layers to, to this whole department of question that you just opened with that.
And we have a responsibility here to observe that and evaluate properly.
But there is a big shift happening.
Xerxes Voshmgir: So Xerxes Voshmgir: the way I understand it is that the people, also, the tribes, the medicine men and women, they also lose a certain level of authenticity.
Is that right?
Hauxita: Yeah, it’s, it’s, it depends on which village tribe you look at or which specific example, but something is shifting towards losing something.
And you can maybe even say losing authenticity.
Maybe it’s just one person in the village, but everything affects everything.
Hauxita: a whole environment of living together, so everything will affect everybody.
Xerxes Voshmgir: The way I understand this, the way you live, the way you go forth, Xerxes Voshmgir: you have.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Observed a lot of tribes.
You’ve observed different traditions.
What does it mean to do medicine work in Xerxes Voshmgir: an original way, in an authentic way, and what does it mean for the people who do it.
Hauxita: First of all is a commitment.
It means commitment, and it means commitment to the way.
Hauxita: and the way and the way that I observe and study is the indigenous way.
Not all the indigenous way that are still currently active are good examples in my perspective.
Because also there’s some lack of alignment for indigenous traditional happening right now because the shifts of culture and the coming of money is changing so much that the true nature of their tradition is maybe lost.
So maybe they are not a good example for me anymore, but they are good examples out there.
So personally, I believe it means you need to be aligned with the teachings of that medicine.
And you also compromise some things in your life and you pay a price.
But this is how I receive it personally.
So in order to share Campbell, I would like to live its teachings.
Because if I share this medicine and what I’m doing is just like creating the space and the medicine is doing its work, but I still have to be in full alignment to be able to do that.
Otherwise, I’m not sharing the truth from the heart.
Otherwise, I’m creating a space that is not clean and clear and doesn’t show the full respect to the medicine.
So we have to be really aware that this is a big responsibility.
And we always have to check in to be aligned.
And for me personally, Hauxita: it has been a lonely path.
Hauxita: Maybe because maybe it’s a bit the story of my life.
Hauxita: Who to walk my path alone or a challenge in my life.
But it has been aligning and flowing like this fingers have been been going their way for me.
I was always doing it alone, so to, to commit to working with the medicine or sharing the medicine, and I’m not living in an indigenous community in the jungle.
Yeah, I am.
I’m a solo person on my path.
I’m, I’m not with 500 people from my genetic family in a tribe living somewhere.
Hauxita: this is maybe more the story of my families, but not my own personal story in this lifetime.
So I am.
Quite a lot with myself in kind of a dieta or diet, especially this last year outside of the jungle.
I have been in the diet with myself a lot, and it means that I have to be cared for with my own energy and what I put into my system.
If telling someone about dieta and diets with Kambo, I have to live a tour.
And at the same time enjoy life as it comes and find a balance.
It’s about a sustainable balance here.
And it’s important that if you say something, if you share a talk, Hauxita: an idea, Hauxita: with someone, I have to walk the talk.
And of course we are not perfect.
I’m also just a human being.
But what I’m doing in that moment I’m doing, I can try and do it impeccable.
And not just with with heart and and love, but with awareness.
And of course it’s a path and it’s a progress.
And the way I’m working now and sharing inflammation about Kambo, sharing Kambo is different than three years ago.
It’s different than two years ago, for example.
It has shifted.
And we have to be aware that we can always learn more.
There’s always so much more to learn.
That’s why it’s important for me to continue traveling to the tribes and connect with more insights and myths and stories and cosmology and use and perception and the approaches because it’s never ending.
It’s, it’s a vast ocean of knowledge out there.
And at the same time, it’s important to stay humble.
Very, very humble with that, because quickly things can come to your mind.
If it’s like a gratitude from a person that’s they see you have brought them the ceiling, which I don’t think you know.
It’s always important to stay, to stay humble and detached, Hauxita: as well.
But it is a commitment.
And personally for my own life, that means I say yes to a commitment because I want to, and there are things that I’m not missing and lacking.
Hauxita: But there are parts of my life that I’m just not living like other people would live them.
But they have other lives too.
What I’m doing is maybe quite specific.
It’s not the same energy, like living in the city and doing specific things in the city.
It’s not that anymore.
I’m living a totally different life, so, but life is different for the way I’m living it.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Are you now talking about your specific life or is it something that applies also to the indiginous people and especially the people who do healing work within the indigenous tribes?
So it depends on which tradition of indigenous healing are we looking at.
But there are a very common ways for the healers of the villages to to learn their ways, and that is mostly in isolation and seclusion.
For a long time, maybe for 10, 20, 30 years, until they received the permission to, to start working with people.
And, Hauxita: there is a tribe in Colombia.
The Kogi, if they have an understanding that, Hauxita: they have people in their tribe who are talking to mother earth and, and.
Dare transmitters for the message of mother earth.
Hauxita: to be able for them to receive the messages from mother earth and give them to their people.
They have to be receptive for it and to learn to be receptive for it after they are born.
I don’t know exactly when, but they live for a specific amount of years in darkness So their senses get sharpens and they get in tuned to speak with the spirits.
So that is a commitment, right?
If you imagine the Western perspective, you’re going to, you want to live in the earth falls on nine or 10 years until, until you can serve your community.
Hauxita: other, you notice that they know they have been receiving at us and they have been living in isolation.
Of for 20 years.
Hauxita: And Justin the jungle was the plans and doing that work.
Hauxita: and, Hauxita: one year that I know before he wants to, Hauxita: have sex with his wife.
Hauxita: he has to ask permission from the plants.
And, Hauxita: another healer.
I know he is.
It’s kind of codex.
Whenever he meets the people he works with, he never gives them a hug.
Always has two meter distance to the people.
And I was asking him one time why, and he said, it’s for reason of energy.
Don’t take it personal.
It’s just that, you know, I need to be in my own energy and I’m not allowed to come closer to you.
Hauxita: Whereas on the opposite side, you have people that call themselves I a, I’m that healer and they’re gonna rave women.
Hauxita: during an Ayahuasca ceremony and these stories, they happen, Hauxita: the, Hauxita: you can, you can just like find the information online on these things.
People abuse their position.
Hauxita: But to be able to maintain the work that you share.
Have to maintain a specific way of living.
So the price that you pay can be many things in Iran, also for the indigenous people, but you don’t see it like it’s something you lose, but it’s like something you gain.
What’s a specific attitude and behavior and keeping the rules and the framework so you can serve, serve the people with what you have learned.
So it’s kind of a progress.
So you can add, basically it’s, Hauxita: for the indigenous people who are sharing the work or who are the bridge keepers between the worlds, it means a lot of isolation time.
A lot of fasting.
A lot of time with their objects in the jungle, the plans, the did the animals.
Hauxita: a lot of time alone.
So it, it ha it means specific things for your experience about your life and world, but it’s focused on, your teaching on your receiving of those teachings.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay.
So basically what you’re saying is this is a very specific path that, Xerxes Voshmgir: you decide to go and commit yourself when you become a healer with sacred medicines.
Xerxes Voshmgir: That this is central to the work that a healer does the way I understand it and also, yes, please.
Hauxita: the only thing I would add is like when you say that you decide for, it’s oftentimes not that it gets decided for you or it happens, it just happens.
It’s not a conscious decision that happens.
Hauxita: for some people it’s
you’re going to be the next one because your grandfather has been the healer of the tribe.
Hauxita: or something happens in your life and you get stumbling on that path through something that happened in your life and you’re on that path and flow and it was never planned.
So it has different levels to that.
But once you are there, you commit to it.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Okay.
And there’s different levels of, Xerxes Voshmgir: commitments, not only by people go to the visit, the tribes, but also within the tribes.
Now with this.
All change of Xerxes Voshmgir: how much the influence Western influence is on tribes as well.
The way I understand it.
Hauxita: Exactly, yeah.
Xerxes Voshmgir: So you talked about sacred medicine work, and for me, a question really is, we talked a bit about the, how it is exploited in a touristic way.
To some extent, it talked about that that is scarce.
And, Xerxes Voshmgir: really.
Xerxes Voshmgir: What I experience a lot now.
Xerxes Voshmgir: in the West.
Is that, for example, Ayahuasca has become very fashionable, even to the extent that I hear about a cool Berlin startups doing a Ayahuasca retreats for their team, Xerxes Voshmgir: retreat once a year and things like that.
So what’s your position on that?
How do you differentiate?
What is sacred medicine work?
Xerxes Voshmgir: recreational use.
And how important also, do you find the context of how medicine is taken apart now from the dieta, what we’ve talked about Xerxes Voshmgir: and in which context this taken?
Do you think it makes a difference if for the medicine is taken in the jungle of it’s taken, Xerxes Voshmgir: In the West, maybe even in a city doesn’t make a difference at all.
Doesn’t make any difference.
So it’s a few questions really, but I think they’re all connected.
Hauxita: Yeah, definitely.
So what I observe and what you also mentioned is the popularity, Hauxita: around those sacred medicine.
So first of all, what are sacred medicines, let’s say, for the history of humanity, human beings in different traditions and cultures have used what mother earth is giving them to connect with the spirits or other dimensions.
Might it be magic mushrooms or peyote and Mexico, Ayahuasca, in South America, Hauxita: so many other possibilities all over the world.
Hauxita: so sacred medicine was always used to.
Context of the indigenous tradition, Hauxita: for healing or Hauxita: crossing over a passage like a rite for initiation, for consulting, Hauxita: the, the spirit about something that is happening in the village, Hauxita: to find a solution.
To connect with ancestors.
So the context of sacred medicines is old and ancient, and we have to see it in its context as well, because nowadays when, Hauxita: indigenous people drink Ayahuasca regularly, like some tribes once a week, every Saturday, for example, I have experienced, they have this, they drink once a week all their lives.
Let’s see ayahuasca.
So it’s implemented in their everyday life and culture to do so because they may discuss something that is important for their village or this is the way they reenact a ritual and maintain connection, and it’s, it’s important to stay strong as a community to do this practice together.
Hauxita: and they still chant the old, Hauxita: healing songs, and they perform the old dancers, and they have a strong, Hauxita: choreography and structure around this.
Hauxita: and they share prayer words or words of gratitude.
So when we talk about in sacred medicine, there’s this background to it.
And when we talk about sacred medicine, there’s new thing going on now that the popular thing that people.
Our into it.
What I, what I sometimes have the feeling is that people perceive those sacred medicines.
Like I’m going into a supermarket in the Western world, for example, in the city.
I’m going into the supermarket and I can get everything at any time in the year and all I have to do is take it and put it into my, Hauxita: my basket and like pay for it.
And then I have it.
And there is a mentality about healing and approaching sacred medicines that is similar to, I’m going to the supermarket and I can get everything at any time, whatever ones in need, as long as I pay for it.
Hauxita: But Hauxita: that is far away from what I have described just now.
The indeginous way, this way, the context of using sacred medicines there, because I understand everybody who wants to consult sacred medicines to tap into intuition, healing, to learn more about themselves too, to heal something specific.
We have this option nowadays and the bridge between the indigenous.
Hopefully still sustainable context.
There are uncontacted tribes that we don’t know about this for sure.
Still do it like this and the bridge to where we are at right now.
We need to share information education to make that happen, because if
we approach it, Hauxita: in the way of the supermarket.
I want a quick fix, and as long as the payment, $3,000 after the 10 days, I’m going to be enlightened.
Hauxita: Because, Hauxita: the, the approach oftentimes is.
The approach of consuming.
I consumed something so I will feel better.
So I’m going to drink Ayahuasca and it’s going to heal me and I’m going to feel better.
But this is not the truth.
I would not say that when you start drinking Ayahuasca and when you drink Ayahuasca and you drink it a lot and you drink it for many years, did you call a heal?
I think that’s not true.
What Ayahuasca is doing or any other sacred medicine.
And what the person that is like in between is doing the person that is the healer who, who is, Hauxita: creating that space that you can experience it.
They are tools and there are helpers.
They support you too, to enter in to something where you can perceive and learn something about yourself, where you have a possibility.
To enter the realm of understanding.
Because what happens when you will work with sacred medicine?
Something opens up, something gets moved.
You see something.
You usually see it though from the perspective of where you are right now in your perception.
In your mind.
But still, when the ceremony’s over, the hardest part is starting because you have to go back home and you got to implement and integrate what
you have learned in that, Hauxita: ceremony or would you have seen there?
Because that’s the hardest part.
You ha you have to change and you have to commit to changing your life in the three dimensional it’s easy.
It’s easy to drink Iowasca to sit in a sacred space of ceremony that gets hold.
And to experience it.
It’s a challenge, but it’s easier than implementing the teachings in your everyday life.
And also oftentimes what happens is that it’s hard to work with these medicines.
It’s, it’s not always a clear message to receive from Ayahuasca or something like this.
What do you do with what you experience?
In the old, old way.
If you want a healing for yourself, you would never even drink the medicine.
The the traditional way also was that you were consulting the healer of your village with the intention to heal and he would make a ceremony for you, but he will drink the medicine.
Only he and you would sit in that circle.
Well, she, yeah, and that that person would, would consult a medicine and work on you, but you would be just sitting there was, or maybe you wouldn’t even be sitting there.
Maybe you would be just in your hearts in your bed because you won’t be able to walk or something.
But the traditional way is actually that.
But nowadays everybody.
We come like running to drink those medicines.
But why is, what is the context behind it?
Because it’s challenging too to get it and it’s, it’s a quick shift that happens in your whole system.
How do you really digest all of that information?
This shouldn’t be taken lightly to work with the sacred medicines, especially because there are sacred.
I know that people, we are like the own nature is that we are curious.
We want to try things out.
And that’s okay.
Hauxita: but as I see it, if you have a specific intention to work with the specific men as medicine or even more than one medicine.
Stay with that intention and, and remind yourself, healing takes a long time.
It’s not going to be done in one day or in one year.
The more, Hauxita: medicine I’m drinking the more, unless I understand that, Hauxita: the healing happens in different ways and not just when I’m drinking medicine.
So you have to be aware that.
Of course, it’s beautiful to dwell in those realms of non-dualistic, Hauxita: Buddhas, Hauxita: peace and love and we all want to be there all the time.
That’s, that’s also our nature.
It kept coming addictive to always be.
In those enchanted spaces.
And we know that a lot of psychoactive molecule molecules are keloids.
They, Hauxita: help us fight depression.
They make us more alive, more happy or more enchanted.
And of course we want more of that.
And that’s also natural and normal, but we have to really check in the purpose for.
Why am I joining that ceremony?
Or why do I want to do that medicine work?
Because usually people start with the very specific thing in their life, and then what I observe is you can really get lost and keep drinking the medicines, and you maybe don’t even know why you’re adjusting that flow of medicine, community medicine world.
You’re always on that energy.
You’re vibrating high, you like the social aspect of it, and it’s all fine.
But is that the true nature of why.
We should work with those medicines because again, there are, there is no endless supply.
Someone has to regrow that Ayahuasca vine.
Someone has to take care of the
Chacruna about all the Kambo frogs, you know, Hauxita: is it really necessary to smoke a Bufo alvarius medicine 15-30 times in a row?
Is that necessary?
Aren’t we exploiting the medicines by not knowing why we are working with them anymore?
you can drink Ayahuasca for years, but you are still the same person with the same problems.
Why is that?
Because you have not done your work in this world here and the 3D and that is the challenge and that is the painful thing.
And this is a tendency that I see.
Hauxita: And we have to be very aware and careful around this because I’m not talking of the theory.
I’m sharing something I have been going through myself.
That’s why I can share it.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Thanks for sharing that.
so what I always say there is a difference between drug use and drug abuse Xerxes Voshmgir: and in between lines.
Now you have talked about this, but Xerxes Voshmgir: in to be very specific, could you point out what your definition or what your ideas are.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Of the difference of Xerxes Voshmgir: the sacred medicine use in a healthy way Xerxes Voshmgir: and Xerxes Voshmgir: compared to what it would be in the recreational way.
I’m sure it’s not, cannot be a clear cut definition, but what are your thoughts?
How would you differentiate?
What is the recreational use and.
Xerxes Voshmgir: What it needs and what it takes to be Xerxes Voshmgir: medicine work that is really Xerxes Voshmgir: whether use of the medicine is not recreational, but really medical
Maybe we can even say therapeutic therapeutic approach towards the recreational approach.
So a general thing that I believe applies to making out the difference here is taking breaks, taking breaks from working with sacred medicines and using those breaks when you are not always going into the DMT worlds.
But where you are staying in the 3D and tapping into what you have experienced from this perspective and from this dimension.
Because traditionally, and if we, if we study a little bit about, Hauxita: ancient civilizations, Hauxita: the aim would not be.
That we always keep drinking Ayahuasca until the end of the life, or we like constantly need to consult the medicines.
That shouldn’t be the aim.
It shouldn’t be that you’re gonna drink Ayahuasca for the next 20,30,40 years unless you are not living in a, unless you’re living in an indigenous context, like in the village where this is the tradition.
And this is how you meant it pain your connection to the spirit.
Well, this is another story I’m talking, yeah.
About really the, someone coming from the Western world and looking for healing.
I don’t believe that these medicines are out there and that Pachamama mother earth is giving us these possibilities so that we always now are going to drink it and use them.
I don’t think so.
Hauxita: I believe you have to check in with yourself for why you are doing what you’re doing.
As I already mentioned, what do I want to work on?
What do I want to heal?
But take taking breaks from, Hauxita: these medicines.
Because I also had a time in my life, Hauxita: when I was so much in that flow that, Hauxita: I was using specific medicines, Hauxita: super frequently.
But on the other hand, also, Hauxita: if you share the medicines, maybe that’s another story.
If you work with it a lot yourself.
I personally believe it’s good to take a break where like over a year, two, three, one, two, three years and, and really trying to implement those teachings, no matter how hard it seems and how much easier it would seem now to drink a cup of Ayahuasca in a ceremony and, and get more loosened up and relax again about something that we couldn’t solve.
But healing takes time.
And I was working a lot in my ceremonies in all these seven years now on my relationship with my, my parents, for example.
No, seeing a lot of visions, having a lot of energy, more capping around that, purging a lot of those old energies that have not been serving me.
But the true.
Practice comes when I meet my parents in real life and spending time with them.
And this is where I can put it into practice.
And this is where the real test is happening.
And I appreciate, Hauxita: the possibility, Hauxita: that we can do it in the three dimensional.
But if it’s just about getting high and, and, and, and being always in that space and, and not being able to take the break, being afraid of taking a break from those medicines because you’re not just drinking Ayahuasca, you are much more than that.
You should still see it.
tall sacredness, but as a helping tour.
Hauxita: With a limited supply on the planet.
And we also have to feel into the idea of sharing.
There is a very sad story going on around the bufo alvarius toad the Mexican desert.
Hauxita: this, this species will go extinct, extinct.
The medicine is very popular.
Hauxita: People, people use it.
People overuse it is really necessary for one person to smoke it 40 times.
Why don’t you just use it a couple of times and think of, okay.
Now more people can use the medicine.
I haven’t used to tap into the same I have to tap into in.
And this is something that is lacking entirely and understanding that not many people have.
That’s why I was, Hauxita: giving the example of consuming.
We go into the supermarkets, it’s always there and we buy it.
So this kind of approach, this kind of attitude is not an attitude from someone who always lives in the jungle and you know, we’ll, if self-sustained from the jungle or in his or her village.
But that comes from a Western metrics, so to say.
And we have to be really careful.
And always checking in with ourselves.
Xerxes Voshmgir: so you live in a very different type of reality than most people, and I would be really interested in which paradigms you believe need to be challenged.
Today in could be now in medicine work, but it could be also like in general, what your perspective is.
In my answer, I would like to focus on Hauxita: the, the linguistic approach to what I would wish four.
The world or what’s I believe in is important.
Maybe I can, I can share it like this if it’s okay for you.
So I believe that, first of all, it’s about an understanding what is the connection to myself, who am I and what am I?
It’s important to put that focus on ourselves first, to be able to understand the rest.
Because we are highly complex and sensitive beings and we carry a lot of memories, emotions, behavioral patterns, traumatic experience, all of us in our lives, and we are all going through.
The same experiences in life.
We have to understand that we are all the same in what’s we go through.
If you’re heartbroken and I’m heartbroken, we’re going through the same suffering.
So we’re, it’s a shared experience actually.
Hauxita: And Hauxita: if I have a cancer, but you have chronic headache Hauxita: What we are going through and there’s no better or worse.
It’s exactly what did we experience and what we you wish to be liberated from.
And body, mind and heart.
Where we are layers of so many things.
We are so sensitive beings.
Our body, our minds, and our hearts.
I’m going to show us the way, so we got to tune in and observe the signs because we are all energy and vibration and to be able to, to hear, first of all, we have to understand that I have to respect and I have to love myself.
There’s no other way around it.
We have the power.
Everybody has the power two connect with themselves and to start this healing process.
Now we have to connect with the idea of self-empowerment.
And again, it’s important that we understand and we tap into this power of yes, I can create my own reality Hauxita: and we can take action to create our own reality.
At every moment in time right now and drive now and drive now you can create your own reality and it’s important to be grateful for the life that we are having and for all its teachings that are coming because means that universal flow it, everything that has happening even in the current situation.
It’s just the perspective.
Where do we put ourselves into, what do we do with the challenge in life?
And to be able to also to be able to reconnect with ourselves, not just with the practice of being aware of.
Self respect and self love and awareness around of this and the awareness that we are all in this together.
That we reconnect to our home?
And my home is not this house, it’s my temporary housing, but my whole is planet.
It’s mother earth.
And if we want to connect to our essence, we gotta live in companionship.
And we got to live in companionship with the element And we have the chance to tap into an old knowledge of health and healing and living together by consulting the indigenous wisdom and the indigenous ways.
So just to name the.
The topics that I’m referring to is, for example, farming, hunting, our relationship to food, our relationship to fasting, our relationship too.
Hauxita: Prayer and chanting and dancing.
The traditions, the ritual, the rights.
What’s the source of our being?
What’s the sacred sacredness of, of being?
That’s very important.
that we reconnect to to those understandings?
Because usually the Western way of life is a globalized way of life.
And we are so unrooted, but the indigenous way, it happens in, in a, in a tribal way, in a community way.
And we can understand and learn that it’s important to respect Hauxita: yourself, each other.
You’re surrounding your environment as much as having compassion and supporting each other.
Also by sharing.
We can tap into use, sing a sacred natural medicines, and we can learn more about Hauxita: the spirit in everything by understanding that everything belongs together, Hauxita: but oftentimes in Western life, we are lacking many of those things.
Alfie, connection to food.
A healthy connection and aware connection to the land that you’re living on.
What importance does the, the land you’re living on has what you’re surrounded by?
What kind of community are you living in?
So, bye connecting to indigenous, his way of.
Living because there’s a lot of wisdom in that.
It’s not about perfection, but there’s an the wisdom that has been repeated over thousands and thousands of years in different indigenous contexts.
We can connect to an understanding of what is our true nature and what is the important value of living Hauxita: and.
It’s not just about I want to heal and I will drink Ayahuasca and I have my shaman and they’re going to hear me.
I think that’s wrong.
We should not abuse, do sacred medicines and we should not give our power to, are they going to hear me, the doctor and the hospital is going to help me.
The shaman is going to hear me.
You’re the only one who was going to heal yourself and no one else.
You can use amazing tools and teachings and understanding to put it into practice, but it’s still going to be you who’s doing the work.
No one will do it for you.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Thank you.
That’s was very enlightening.
My final question is I’d like to know what you want your legacy to be.
Meaning basically that what impact do you want to have had on humanity once you leave this lifetime?
Hauxita: It would be great to inspire just one person with, Hauxita: more loving connection to themselves.
Hauxita: and Hauxita: to save some jungle.
Xerxes Voshmgir: Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for being on my show.
Thank you for having me so much.
Thank you so much hermano.
Xerxes Voshmgir: I sent you all my best wishes to Peru.
Hauxita: Thank you so much.