Video Excerpts From the Podcast
Meet Albert Nerenberg
REM State Hypnosis
Orgasms Without Contact
Hypnosis & Shock Induction
Impact & Legacy
Transcript of the Interview
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Welcome to Challenging #ParadigmX.
My name is Xerxes Voshmgir and
the my podcast, I interview people
who challenge the status quo.
Is laughter, perhaps more contagious
than any virus that we know.
And believe me, I’m not joking
when I tell you there are
something like a laughter pandemic.
Have you ever heard of hock induction?
It’s a method in hypnosis to catapult
people into deep trance on an
individual level, but it can also be
used to do this with a whole society.
Is racist response perhaps often
a trauma triggered reaction
to a previous shock induction.
can hypnosis contribute to sexual healing
and help the honor orgasm TAF orgasms?
And did you know that we can
learn new skills and also heal
in our dreams and induce this
possibilities through hypnosis?
My guest today is Albert Nerenberg.
He’s an acclaimed filmmaker and
hypnotherapist, and he’s one of the
world’s leading experts on laughter.
All God has produced a number of
documentaries, including one on stupidity,
one on laughter, and one on nine 11.
The latter initiated his path as
a hypnotherapist, and today he’s
renowned for his TEDx talk on if
hypnosis is real, that has been
watched more than 10 million times.
So if you’re interested in
this topics, stay tuned.
Hi is Xerxes, and today I’m here with
Albert Nerenberg so Albert, I hope you’re
well and, please, introduce yourself
and, tell us who you are, what you do,
because it’s great to be here is where
I think I’m, I think one reason why I’m
on this podcast is like I’ve arrived
at a moment in my life where I started
to recognize that I think in paradigms
perhaps like you, and I think that
paradigms are sort of a powerful way of,
of, Of sort of reframing one’s existence.
and, I should explain that.
I am, I started off in career
wise as a journalist working,
as a newspaper reporter.
then was a feature writer and I
became a filmmaker in a weird way.
I was, reporting on a
conflict in Canada involving.
So Mohawk, our native indigenous
people, Indians, in Canada and there,
there was an armed uprising of Mohawks,
against the police in a particular area.
and there, it turned into a standoff
between the Mohawks and the Canadian army.
And the, my, myself and a photographer,
were able to smuggle a camera behind
the lines, into the Mohawk encampment.
at that time I was reporter, not
a filmmaker, but because I had the
only video camera, in the situation.
I was hired by TV networks all
over the world at that time.
It was a big event.
It was called the Oka crisis.
And, so I became a filmmaker in
that experience, very quickly.
And that’s sort of like,
the story of my life.
I have these sort of weird experiences
that’s changed my life dramatically.
And then I went.
I made an a number of documentaries.
So people, I specialize in paradigm ideas.
So one of them, is a
documentary called Stupidity.
and it’s a documentary I made for
television, which suggests that stupidity
is a strategy in for life that a number
of people, particularly in America.
Use stupidity to their advantage.
I think one would assume that that,
we’re all trying to be more intelligent.
We’re all trying to say smarter
things, but actually I try to
demonstrate that that’s not true.
That that stupidity is far more powerful.
than intelligence and certain certain
ways, and that there’s a kind of
active ignorance and stupidity that
you see, particularly in American
culture, that’s probably a result
of the class divide ultimately.
so that was the sort of first, big
documentary I made and one that
a lot of people know is another
documentary called Laughology.
Which is about laughter.
And again, it was a paradigm because,
it was the first documentary ever
made about laughter, which sounds
outrageous, but there’ve been a
number of many films about humor.
But no one had ever investigated
laughter itself behavior.
And, so that opened up
a whole world for me.
I think laughter is one of the
great civilizing forces for not
just humans, but for mammals.
it’s what makes the world a sort
of happier, more playful place.
And, So in making those films, I
started to realize each of these, the
paradigm, for example, when I made
laughology, I became a laughologist.
I would get hired by, conferences or
events and brought in just to make the
audience laugh without telling jokes.
I would just demonstrate
And because laughter is contagious,
even just demonstrating the behavior
will make an audience laugh.
So I actually, for years of my full time
job was laughologist where all I did was
basically demonstrate something that is
innate laughters and innate behavior.
And I would just demonstrate it
in crowds and, and, and I would
explain the history of that.
Some very interesting history.
Famously in Tanzania in 1962 there
was a huge laughter epidemic where.
and could not stop for weeks.
it’s a very interesting event,
and it can be possibly explained
by mass psychogenic illness.
so in the film we explore a lot of
the UN unusual laughter phenomena,
which it turns out the, you know,
the weirdest things about laughter.
Actually, we all share in common.
The weirdest thing about
laughter’s, how contagious it is,
it’s probably the most powerful,
contagious behavior of all of them.
Because when somebody laughs contagiously
there, they are literally in your
brain causing signals to change
so that you laugh along with them.
You can, you can try to stop it,
but it’s a very powerful behavior.
So, as, the sort of last paradigm
that I think has maybe relevant is
as, as a filmmaker, I did, it actually
did a very strange documentary.
I was just assigned to do it.
It was, I found that there was an
interesting pattern of people who
had dreams about the events of
New York 2001, before it happened.
So a lot of people had very clear dreams
where they, let’s say, saw planes flying
into a building or buildings collapsing.
they were, the dreams were notable
enough that they either told somebody,
or in the case of people who were
seeing therapists, they told the
therapist and the therapist wrote it
down, you know, in a book or an a.
And then when the events happened,
there was actually a record where
somebody said, I had this exact dream.
And I had the dream before it happened.
And I had a friend who had that
exact dream before it happened.
And it was a weird experience cause
I had kind of made fun of them.
They had told me they had this dream
about, burning buildings and the two
buildings, twin towers and fires.
And I had said, wow, that’s kind of weird
dream good thing that hasn’t happened.
And then the next day it did.
So to make a long story short, when I
was working on the film because there
was some debate about how people died.
In the actual event, I, watched a
lot of footage, terrible footage
of what happened to people, and
I actually became traumatized.
I think I have a previous
history of trauma.
And, when I saw the imagery, I was
aware that some of it got completely
stuck inside my head, meaning I couldn’t
think without seeing these pictures.
And it gave me a very sort
of bad feeling about life.
I realized I had developed anxiety
and I happened to just see an ad
online where the ad roughly said
something along the lines of.
Do you have obsessive memories that you
can’t get rid of or intrusive thoughts?
Call this number.
So being a bit adventurous, I
thought, what, what do I have to lose?
And I called this number and
I actually did not even know
what hypnosis was at that time.
This is now about 15, 16 years ago.
And, this guy basically answered the
phone friendly guy and said, I think
I can help you with your problem.
And then in half an hour.
This problem that had continuously
for six months, literally pictures I
could not get out of my mind went away.
It was immediately cured and
they couldn’t believe it.
And so after that, I just sort
of decided I had to learn how to,
you know, I had to learn hypnosis.
Took me a few years and
then that opened up a whole.
I now that’s sort of has brought me here
to your show, where I think that hypnosis
is the area where there are more potential
paradigm shifts almost in anything else.
That sounds very interesting.
And, and, when you called this number
and the period after that, would
you call this the turning point of
your life or was there any other
major turning points in your life?
I think there was a really big,
I think I’ve had a number of
turning points, one of them.
So one of the, yes, in terms of my
ability to heal myself as a human being.
It was the turning point in my life.
I would say that up to then, I
was always becoming more damaged.
And when that happened, I
was able to reverse that kind
of phenomena, that energy.
but I had another one
when I made this film.
Laughology I think it was a similar thing.
And when I, when I made lithology
people always ask me like, why?
Where did you get this idea
to make a film about laughter?
Because laughter is something
hiding in plain sight is
something that we do all the time.
It’s very obvious.
You don’t, nobody thinks, Hey, that,
you know, that weird sound you made.
I’m going to make a documentary about it.
But what happened was interesting is that
I was, I was working in television at the
time doing satirical type TV shows there
were actually a little bit dangerous.
So what we would do is we would
take actors and we put them into
real political situations, usually
in Canada or the United States.
So we’d have fake actors and we’d
often have actors in person eating the
body guards, well-known politicians.
But the problem was we were too good.
And what would happen on an on one one
incident where the prime minister of
Canada was walk, had to walk from one.
Basically room outside to another room
and the real police miss identified our
actors as if they were another group of
policemen and they ordered our actors
to walk because they wanted to show that
they were the more important police.
They ordered our fake police to
escort the prime minister of Canada.
You know, through a hallway
and out the building.
So, which means that the only people
that were protecting the head of state
of our country were these like buffoon
actors that were like friends of mine.
And so when the police realized
what had happened, we were
immediately detained and threatened.
And you know, they
threatened to confiscate our
equipment to put us in jail.
We knew we had endangered people.
I mean, they knew that we
were not malevolent people.
We weren’t trying to hurt anybody.
We just wanted to tell funny jokes.
And after that experience, I remember
thinking that I was looking at my
life thinking, what am I looking for?
Why am I so desperate to create,
to get into these sort of dangerous
situations, you know, for humor.
And, I’ll tell you the
whole, the whole story.
Cause I think it’s funny.
you may know of Tom Green, but Tom
Green is a, you know, he’s a Canadian,
but now Hollywood actor for famous,
for sort of a shock kind of comedy.
His, I think what you saw with Tom
green is he always had to push the
envelope if he, you know, if he threw
poop on people’s faces, you had to
go further the next time, you know.
And, I was reading a magazine
about Tom Green, dry on a shoot,
driving in a car and they came
across a dead moose on the road.
And so Tom Greene told his
film crew to start filming.
You ran out of the car and he stuck
his head up the dead moose, his ass.
This is like a rotting course,
and I remember thinking.
Is this where satire has to go, you
know, is this where I have to go?
And it really, in that moment, I
had an epiphany because I asked
myself, what am I really looking for?
In my mind, I thought it was looking
for the ultimate joke, right?
But the epiphany I had was that the
ultimate joke really is laughter.
It’s not the comedy, it’s not
the, it’s laughter itself.
This common universal shared
wonderful behavior that.
Begins in all humans.
That approximate approximately one
month has virtually no exceptions.
Humor varies from culture to
culture, from person to person.
We all laugh the same way.
And when that, when I had that epiphany,
that was the second big change in
my life that really changed me.
And, and so I was luckily able to then
convince, convince I wasn’t wrong.
In my theory that laughter was hiding
in plain sight because I did a bunch of
research and I found out, Whoa, no one’s
ever made a documentary that explores
laughter, tons on humor, none on laughter.
And when I did, I realized laughter is
like far like a truly amazing thing.
You know, there’s a, there’s an exact
mathematical code for how people laugh.
You can’t mess with the code if you do.
People don’t understand you.
That it’s intensely contagious.
Of course, it has health properties,
strengthens your immune system.
It’s an antidepressant.
It’s free, so that that blew
the doors wide open for me.
So when, when did you do this documentary?
Quite a while.
It was a 2009, but it’s, it’s,
it’s often, it’s now free online.
I’ve, we made it free for a while.
It was, it played in theaters and
then it was like a, you know, on
some TV networks, but I deliberately
wanted to make it, it’s on YouTube.
You can find it there.
So it was also after, your experience
with, with the hypnotist when you
of kind of the same, yeah, around
the same time, but later I started
to realize it was only later that I
started to take hypnosis more seriously.
And, And this is, I would say it’s a
different ball of wax, and then laughter.
It’s a whole other game.
So that’s that.
Those were two big paradigm shifts for me.
It’s not, it’s not the,
it’s not the humor.
It’s the laughter.
That’s a big paradigm for me.
do you see yourself still as a filmmaker
or I, you still infer make it, so
I guess, I guess you, you, you are
thinking also in documentaries when you
think about things that your process.
So what documentary, even if you might not
ever gone to do it, but what documentary
are you thinking about right now?
I’m always thinking about a few, but,
like kind of, well, there’s one, there’s
a couple I’m working on, but one I’ve
thought about recently is, is, is,
is the theory of shock inductions.
So I recently did a TEDx in Switzerland.
In hypnosis, there’s basically
two ways to hypnotize people row.
There’s probably more,
but to rough styles.
One style is you simply sit somebody
down with their consent and you.
you ask them to relax and then you
show them a bunch of behavioral
tricks that caused them to relax.
One of them is, slow breathing.
You slow down their pace.
then you create imagery that
might be, might be positive.
This style is called
It’s the typical kind of
hypnosis that you see.
And if you went to a hypnotherapist,
the other kind of hypnosis, which is
not well understood is called, either
snap inductions or shock inductions.
And I think it’s worthy of being a film.
Because it is the way by which we
are often manipulated, culturally.
it might be the way that you
can, you know, that, that
people start wars essentially.
and I’ll explain how it’s done.
Hypnotically so if anyone’s been to a
stage hypnosis show now, it’s interesting.
Traveling around, I find stage hypnosis
has, has different levels of popularity.
Country to country in
America is quite big.
what’s interesting, in some
countries it’s still illegal.
In Belgium, it is illegal to
do public demonstrations of
hypnosis, which is hilarious.
But in most of European countries,
you’re allowed to do it.
But I find just you’re, you’re, it’s
less popular in Europe, but, so what
does, what a shock induction is, is
basically you can, if you sit somebody
down once again and you basically move
them, or, you know, get them to relax
a little bit in about 10 seconds.
By shocking them in a particular way.
You can drop them into what’s
called a somnambulant trance,
which is a very deep trance.
Their eyes roll up in their head.
Their muscles become limp,
and they appear to faint.
Now, they haven’t fainted
because they can hear you.
They can hear everything that’s going
on, but from the outward appearance,
they sort of flop over and they
looked like they have fainted.
So when people see this and without
understanding that they can actually
become quite terrified because they think,
well, you’ve just knocked that person out.
But there, it’s not quite that.
But the reason why I think it
makes for a great film is I
think that a shock induction is a
little bit what the lockdown, the
international lockdown that happened.
You know, it’s happened during this Covid
the formula for, for, For creating a shock
induction is simply to begin relaxing
somebody in a sort of authoritative way.
Don’t worry, I’m, you know, I’ve got you.
And then to surprise them, any
kind of surprise, as long as the
surprise is Swift and drastic.
So the surprise can be a sentence,
like, there’s a terrible epidemic
and you know, we’re all in danger.
Or it can be an action like from
here on in, you know, everyone will
be by law, forced to stay inside.
Now, the reason in hypnosis, the reason
why we do shock inductions or snap
inductions, they’re often seen as if I,
I work as a hypnotherapist and if I had
a client who was very hard to monetize.
Cause some people are.
and I would say to them, if you
like, you know, we can try more
sort of aggressive methods.
So a shock induction or snap induction
is a more aggressive method and
it, and if they consent and they’re
okay with it, then you, you do it
and often you’ll get a good result.
So the reason why you do it is that
the principle of a shock induction is
that whatever comes after the shock.
So in a stage hypnosis show.
You can shock somebody, drop them into
trance, and then you can tell them that
they can’t speak English anymore and that
person will start speaking jibberish.
They will be unable to speak English.
Now, not everybody, but at
about a third or a third of the
population will react consistently.
You can also tell that
person that they are chicken.
And this is always a very comic moment
in a show, but I actually think it
reveals a very profound aspect of human
nature because that person will likely
think that they are a chicken now.
So you imagine the
If you can shock somebody and then make
a suggestion that the only way you can
stay safe is by staying inside your house.
That suggestion goes deep.
The principle of the
shock and then suggestion.
The suggestion goes deep.
Now, I’m not saying this to suggest
that that we were the victims of
a mass conspiracy to control us.
I think, I think everybody was shocked
by the reality of Covid, but I think
that the, some of the reasons why
people accepted things uncritically.
Much like if I can, if I hit monetize
somebody and turn them into a
chicken, and then you said to the
person, Hey, you’re not a chicken.
They would actually probably Peck
you because they’re still a chicken.
So similarly, when people absorb a
suggestion that’s given to them through
a shock induction, they’ve taken it deep.
If I, if I don’t stay inside, I’m in
danger and I’m endangering everyone else.
So I think it would be a great, the
reason it needs to be known is that people
need to know that these things work.
They work on human nature.
so that, that’s one of the
films I’m working on now.
The, the, the second one is
just one I would like to make.
The one I would like to make is that I
believe that a very interesting phenomena.
So I did a, a talk, at TEDx Queens
and the, I think the interesting
thing about it, about this talk is
that it’s over 10 million views.
You know, for a TEDx talk.
And people often think it’s a Ted talk.
It’s not, it’s a, it’s
an obscure TEDx talk.
But I often find myself explaining why
there’s so much interest in this talk.
It is entertaining, but there’s a lot
of entertaining things on, on YouTube
that doesn’t explain the the numbers.
The explanation is that I believe, I
have to explain, I didn’t, I didn’t come
up with this idea, but I was the first
person to sort of publicly explain a
working model for hypnosis that actually
explains it almost from the top to bottom.
And other people have had this
idea, but I just had, I laid it
out and then demonstrated it on
real people to show that it’s true.
And I think that’s why there’s
so much interest in that.
And I should explain what, why.
I think it’s significant.
So I believe, and I am different
from other hypnotists, that I
believe that hypnosis is a common
and inheritance like laughter.
It’s a common inheritance of all humanity.
And this is important because
right now I think you would
Hey, I interrupt you in a second.
What does it mean, but doesn’t mean
that common in the irritants in
it, it, it, it belongs to all of us.
It’s not, it’s not.
right now, hypnotists are
sort of like the high priests.
We’re like the priests of, of hypnosis.
Cause we’re the only ones that can do it.
It’s like only the priest can do
the liturgy and the Catholic church.
Only the hypnotist can do hypnosis.
But the truth is that
everyone can do hypnosis.
Everyone experience experiences.
Hypnosis is a universal phenomenon.
And so, so this is controversial
because, you know, many
countries, have laws around this.
For example, Israel for many years
had a law saying only doctors and, you
know, officially, accepted hypnotists
are allowed to perform hypnosis,
which is absurd because hypnosis
is being performed all the time.
You know, it happens everywhere.
one of the, one of the theory
compelling theories of hypnosis is
that we’re all in trances all the time.
They’re just different kinds of trances.
So I might be in a talking trance.
Somebody might be in a listening trance.
They exhibit trans behavior.
When somebody is listening,
they’re not moving very much.
It’s like a trance.
people are in, you know.
There are light transit
that are heavy transit.
So, so this theory suggests that
hypnosis is happening everywhere
and that we shouldn’t relegate or we
shouldn’t allow it to be the private
domain of doctors and hypnotists.
It’s too important.
So in, in my TEDx, again, I’m not going to
explain the whole theory of how hypnosis
works cause it takes a while, but I’ll
give you the kind of compelling key part.
So there’s one thing.
So let me start here.
When you hit Mathai’s people, and
this is when you know they’ve gone
into deep trance, you can often know
because their limbs become limp.
If you hold their limbs, they,
there’s a liquid quality to them.
To their risks or, or, and this is
a way you may see a hypnotist test
if somebody is in deep trans to
take the risks and shake the wrist.
Now when you know that somebody is
in deep trance and you look at their
eyes, there’s a specific behavior.
So you often often see their
eyelids flickering, flickering.
If I could act it, I would, but it’s
hard to, it’s a hard performance.
It’s a hard behavior to act.
So, so many people have observed this
even rate back a hundred years ago.
I think Anton Mesmer observed that
this flickering eyelid effect, but it
started to become relevant, relevant
when studies appeared on REM sleep.
Because what happens to us when we’re
in REM sleep, our eyelids flicker.
So I might be stating
the obvious here, but.
There’s probably an obvious
connection between REM sleep and
deep trans hypnosis because in both
cases, people’s eyes are rolled up
and their eyelids are flickering.
So that’s basically one of the
themes of my TEDx that that’s,
and when you understand that,
you understand huge implications.
Why if hypnosis is a way to
engineer a kind of waking REM state.
Then what does that mean?
Well, one, now this is conjecture,
but I think it is true.
Famously, people describe healing
experiences when they’re hypnotized.
They get, they feel, they’ve described
dramatic, sometimes dramatic healing.
You can, you can stop
wounds from bleeding.
You can bring down inflammation simply
through hypnosis, and one possible
explanation is that studies on sleep.
Show that there are only two
healing States and sleep.
So the only time that that a wound
will heal or an injury will heal
is when a person is either in deep
sleep or they’re in REM sleep.
REM sleep is profoundly healing.
So it stands to reason that if we can
recreate REM sleep in people, like without
them having to go to sleep at the snap
of our fingers in the sense that we
can recreate a powerful healing state.
And so that’s the first assumption.
That’s kind of intriguing.
The second assumption, and what I’ve
suggested too, is that I believe, and
I usually use Star Trek to explain
this, that deeptrans hypnosis is a
bit like the Holodeck in Star Trek.
Now you kind of have to be a Star
Trek fan, but do you remember
the second star Trek series?
yeah, so they had, remember
they had the holodeck.
So the holodeck is a place where you can
recreate any reality and you can live
out any kind of experience that without,
in a sense, you know, consequences.
And part of the twist is sometimes
the consequences are real.
Like you, if you died in the
holodeck, you might die for real.
Well, hypnosis is very much, like the
holodeck, because when somebody goes to
deep trends, so let’s say the classic
example of why somebody is a chicken.
So what this points to is the reason
why people become chickens under
hypnosis and not just chickens.
You can turn somebody into a, into
a cat or, or you can turn somebody
into a rap singer or a ballet dancer.
I’ve demonstrated I was working once with
a group of motorcycle bikers and I, they
were in deep trance and somebody, I asked,
what would you like to see these guys do?
And somebody said, dance
in the Bolshoi ballet.
So those, I took a bunch of bikers and
had them dance as if they were ballet
dancers and they were very serious people
fell off their chair is because laughing,
because those bikers became the most
serious ballet dancers you’ve ever seen.
So how could this be possible?
How could I convince, you know, I’m five
foot seven, I’m not particularly imposing.
How could I convince a
bunch of bikers to become.
Very feminine ballet dancers in a
matter of minutes and convincingly
they were, they danced very seriously.
And here’s the explanation,
which points to another paradigm
within hypnosis and the holodeck.
So one of the theories of dreaming
is a dreaming as an educational
process, like everything that humans
do, things have multiple processes.
So it’s not just educational,
it’s also deep potentiation.
We learn things when we dream.
And they know this because they’ve
actually caused some mammals not
to dream, particularly in the womb.
And those mammals end up to be
retarded, fundamentally retarded.
So, so that’s the sort
of interesting thing.
Now, if you had dreams, for example,
that you were being chased by
wolves, it may then occur to you
that you should climb a tree.
You basically what dream suggests, is
there a way to play out things that are
probably too dangerous in real life?
Like to sort of like do a test of
whether or not you could escape from
wolves is probably not a good idea.
It’s better that you have a dream about
it, where you remember the quality
wolves and you remember that wolves can’t
climb trees and you can climb a tree.
Once you have that dream and then you’re
walking in the forest and you’re, you
know, a Simian version of a human and you.
Are chased by wolves.
You then remember the climb the
tree, and you save your life and you
pass your, you pass along your DNA.
So this educational aspect of dreaming is
very, very powerful and not researched it.
Th th there’s a very interesting
and obscure term that explains it.
And the term that is used
is called dream neutrality.
And one theory is that.
The only right now, the only
creatures that have a high
level of dream neutrality.
Actually maybe humans, I’m not sure
about this, but I think it may be true.
So let me explain it.
Cause it does require explanation.
So dream neutrality is for
you to learn from your dreams.
You need to believe they are true.
You need to be in the dream.
Believing that the wolves can
hurt you so that you can figure
out to climb the tree and escape.
If you don’t think the wolves can
hurt you, you won’t get the answer.
And this is the holodeck.
If you don’t believe on some level that
it’s real, then you won’t learn from
you and you don’t get the enjoyment
also of the holodeck experience.
So what hypnosis offers is this ability
to create a kind of easy holodeck.
Like I’ve often done this
with groups of people.
I take a group of people and
they’re hypnotized together, and
I’ll have them visit other planets.
Now, usually they’re
just sitting in chairs.
I don’t want them running around,
potentially dangerous, but they’re
just sitting in chairs and you can
describe them going to other planets
where it’s hot, where it’s cold.
If it’s hot, they will sweat.
If it’s cold, they might shiver and
they have a kind of holodeck experience.
Now, if you do it for a show,
it all appears to be comedy.
But again, it points to this,
what I’m interested in is
the dream neutrality part.
That part to me isn’t triggering that.
It’s a much more profound experience.
So what’s interesting to me, and I’ll
just finish here, is that you would be,
you might say, Oh, that’s, you know,
that’s an interesting theory that,
you know, hypnosis is REM sleep or,
or the such thing as dream neutrality.
But I can tell you that.
And it sounds like a conspiracy theory,
but it’s not the scientific establishment.
The psychological established and
psychiatric establishment does not agree.
I had a group of psychologists contact me
and tell me REM hypnosis is not REM state
S you know, it’s not a waking dream state.
It’s not true.
They were like adamant that they, I had
to stop saying this, but I, but I was
like, no, I’m not going to stop saying it.
I see it every day.
Every day I see people go
into REM state hypnosis.
So, so there’s a bit of a
culture war around this.
and the moral of the story is, the
reason why that TEDx is so interesting
is that a lot of people are along the
way are one already have figured this
out or have some understanding of it.
And that TEDx was the one place where
it sort of, I think, comes together.
Well, it’s very interesting
what you’re saying.
something that came up along on long list.
What you were saying now that
a shock induced, hypnothesis
I was thinking of that.
people, they are triggered
Like a trauma being triggered and then
they have an over reaction, for example,
I dunno, they attack someone or whatever.
could this also be a shock
induced, trance type of a reaction?
Because you would usually say they
are not themselves in that situation.
So I would say classically, yes,
I think it’s a very good example.
So, so a good example would be
certain racist responses have a shock.
So, for example, right now there’s a
number of people who are, You know,
there’s been, there’s a controversy every
week in United States where some usually a
white person overreacts to a black person
walking into a store or walking in a park.
And I think what’s not really well
understood is that I think these
people are often, are legitimately
afraid, meaning, they are, they are.
They may be racist too, but they,
part of the reason they’re having this
issue is that they, they see a black
person that maybe is too close to
them, a black man, and they are, they
actually are legitimately feeling fear.
They think this person can hurt
them, but you know, but I think it’s
a result of what you’re describing.
So if I, if I show you a bunch of movies,
it’s a very interesting thing, you know?
A very dramatic example of this
is actually the difference between
Canada and the United States.
So let me explain like
an interesting thing.
Both both Canada United States have
fairly sizable African or African derived
populations, but there’s a big difference.
most and most black people in the
United States are African American.
they have a history of
slavery through slavery.
And most, most African derived people
in Canada are from the Caribbean.
Because of the history of
immigration from the Caribbean.
So there are very many different things.
And the people who have noticed that,
for example, the crime rate related
to, let’s say the black underclass
is much lower in Canada than it is in
the U S which you might explain that.
I hope I’m not, you know, I’m not
an expert in this area by the, the
history of trauma and slavery, that
was much stronger in the United
States than it was in Canada.
And that you have really two
different kinds of people.
You have African Americans, and
then you have more like Afro
Caribbean’s that are in Canada.
Well, in Canada, you often have a
very similar reaction where Canadians
will respond to black men fearfully,
because they watch American television.
They can watch American TV shows where
scary black men mug people are scary.
Black men jump out of cars and shoot.
People are scary.
Black men do these very shocking things.
That work has shock inductions.
Literally, a gunshot is a shock induction.
If you hear a gunshot, you will pay very
close attention to whatever comes next.
So, so, similarly, when you have a
bunch of black men shooting guns on TV.
You basically make the
suggestion that black men are
potentially extremely dangerous.
And the absurdity is that even though
statistics would suggest that, you
know, there might be a reality, if
you walk in rough neighborhoods in
the United States, he has a chance
you might get mugged and maybe that
mugger might be black in Canada.
There’s no reason to think that, or
no similar reason to think that yet
many Canadians respond that way.
And I think it’s exactly the
process that you described.
So you specifically what thing?
It’s shocking duct trends.
The way you know it from hypnosis, not
just a similar thing, but exactly that.
W w well, I would say, again, you know, we
started, I started off by saying, I don’t.
That hypnosis is not something that
just happens at a hypnotist office
that, you know, trans behaviors are
happening all the time, and hypnosis
is just a model for understanding them.
So for example, like, like I often
joke that spanking is a shock induction
because literally what you’re trying
to do when you spank and the child
is spanked violently, it’s a shock.
And then there’s a moral to the story.
You know, behave better, stop
doing what you were doing.
And that, and the reason why
spanking works is the same
reason why shock inductions work.
The sh spank is the shock.
And then the moral or the
suggestion comes right after.
And you know, it’s usually there’s
a story, like, be a good child.
Spanx, banks bank, because I’m
recreating a spanking scenario here.
but, but similarly in, in war time.
Or when Wars are declared, you know,
classically the war in Iraq was
actually a giant shock induction.
So, you know, we, you see this
horrible event, it scares you,
the living daylights out of you.
So Americans were scared,
you know, they saw it.
And I’m not, I’m not, I’m not
trivializing any aspect of it because
we know this was a massive and
terrible event by human standards.
the effect would be after a shock
induction, the next suggestion
that is made becomes powerful.
So whatever it is, this horrible thing
that you saw, and then I say, it’s
all Saddam Hussein’s fault, or it’s
all, some had been Latins fault at
that moment, you will go, yes, it’s
all a sound had been Latins fault.
and so this method of.
I mean, this I think even goes back to
the, Blitzkrieg it works in two ways.
It can work in creating adherence.
Meaning if I, if I shock you and say,
we’ve got to, we’ve got to beat up the
guy down the street and you’re kind of
my friend, you are more likely to go
along with me if I’ve shocked you first.
But it also works in, if I’m trying
to scare people, I shocked them.
And then also suggests that I, P I
possess, you know, supernatural power.
I think these, this is my limited
understanding of the famous
Blitzkrieg, you know, by the Nazis.
Where that, that part of the idea
was to start with an incredibly
shocking attack and which would
cause the enemy to sort of like fold.
And that is a similar same principle,
I think of a of a shock conduction
because you, the suggestion isn’t that
you should fold this suggestion is,
you know, that one thing I did too.
Was so overwhelming that it re
that I can now make the suggestion
that I possess a power beyond your
imagination, which is terrifying.
You know, another good example of a shock
induction is getting punched in the face.
I don’t know if you’ve ever
been punched in the face.
I have a few times.
But that is a shock induction too.
It gets your attention, and the next
thing that you, somebody says to you
after they punched you in the face is
something you will always remember.
so it’s a similar principle.
That sounds very interesting.
so is there anything else that you,
think about which implications?
It has like shock inductions
for us, individually.
Also maybe on a societal
level and the humanity level.
Well, the reason I think is an issue,
and maybe even a sort of a problem
would be that, that, So, for example,
there are movies I can recommend
if you’re interested in finding out
more, I would recommend watching ’em.
Now you see, now you see
me, it’s a Hollywood film.
It’s about a group of like magicians,
mentalist, and hypnotists that, you know,
rob banks and become incredibly rich.
And they’re used to manipulate governments
and you know, it’s like Hollywood.
Film, but in the film, one of the actress
portrays a hypnotist, who, who was
able just to walk up to people in the
street and perform a shock induction.
You see the people collapsed in his arms.
Now I can do that.
I can walk up to people.
I mean, you can do it.
If I showed you the
technique, you can do it.
I can walk up to people and I can perform
a shock conduction and they will collapse.
I have to catch them.
And now they are, they may not
stay in that state for long.
It’s not as dangerous as it seems.
When people see this, they’re like,
Oh my God, somebody could just
walk up to me, pull my hand, and
then I’d fall on the ground that
could take my wallet and run away.
So the truth is that it
doesn’t work that way.
But the movies portrayed is working that
way that anybody can walk up to you and
just do this and you’re knocked out.
It’s, it’s, it’s the, the, what they’re
not showing you is what’s happened before.
So what’s happened before is I would, if
I would do this to somebody, I would say,
would you like to try hypnotic experiment?
Are you okay with going into hypnosis?
and I’ve sort of suggested to them that
I’m not going to hurt you in any way.
I’m going to watch out for your safety.
So what I’ve created is a
kind of safe atmosphere.
Then I might tell them
to take, to breathe in.
Because when people slow their
breathing down, they’re starting to
move into the calmer nervous system.
So this sort of, I’ve set a kind
of momentum intention where I’m
suggesting you can go to a calm place.
Then I performed the shock induction,
and at that point they might drop.
so this has implications because.
I, you know, my question, I guess I would
ask you, or I would ask your audience, is
this information that belongs to humanity
or should it be sort of the private
purview of hypnotists and maybe people
that are interested in mind control?
And my feeling is that
this belongs to humanity.
It’s, it’s, it’s a aspect of human nature.
I think it’s there for a reason.
I think it has to do like the way it
originates, a little bit of a hack
in a, in an evolutionary that has
that in an evolutionary behavior.
The hack is that if, if you,
you know, things in the animal
world move very quickly.
So if you were being stocked by
a tiger, the moment you have to
respond is very short, meaning the
tiger, you might hear like a rustle
and then the tiger is on you right.
So, so we are equipped with a
very quick reorientation system.
So that we, or, or any, you
know, any kind of attack event
in nature happens very fast.
famously, snakes and other animals are
been designed by, designed by evolution
to strike so quickly before the.
You know, the animal can respond.
so it’s something that’s out
there a lot and mammals have the
ability to reorient really fast.
And I’m sure this has happened to
you where you hear a loud bang and
you jump, that’s you reorienting.
So what hypnotists have
discovered, I didn’t discover it.
It’s been known probably for, I would
guess a few decades that I, as far as I
know, is that when you shock somebody.
and they try to reorient quickly that if
you sort of say to them, you’re basically
psychologically saying them, it’s okay.
Just go to sleep.
That because that instruction is
given to their unconscious mind,
not their conscious mind, they
often will go straight into sleep.
They will go deep into trance.
So this phenomena, essentially a hack of
a very natural impulse to like reorient
when you’re shocked, but it’s been
used to control and manipulate people.
And I think, you know, it’s
used regularly, to start Wars,
to rally people to your cause.
it’s, it’s just an effective.
Method of persuasion.
it reminds me of the, I did a documentary
on the origins of the desk squad.
Well, actually, we start, it was a
newspaper article, not a documentary,
but, but, I, I, my belief is
that the debt, the concept of the
desk squat originates in Romania.
and with the Romanian iron guard,
which sort of came about with a sort
of a fascist movement came about in.
at the same time, or Rose to
prominence with the Nazis, and they
actually influenced them that Nazi.
So one theory is that the Nazis
got their idea from the Romanian.
So what the Romanian iron guard
would do is that if, if you had a
political opponent, so if you were,
you and I were political opponents,
instead of arguing with you or.
Let’s say if the, the, the opposition
became ferocious instead of just, let’s
say shooting you, what the iron guard
invented was a system where they would
go to their opponents house and they
would kill the person and they would
very violently mangled the corpse,
or they would kill them in a terrible
way, and that they had a signature
move, which they would li live a night.
They would leave a knife.
Directly in the person’s heart, a
big stagger in the person’s heart.
So then when the family found
them or or people arrived, they
would see this horrible scene.
Now the reason why this
mattered is because the iron
guard became very successful.
There are probably a bunch of.
Crackpots bullies, conspiracy
theorists, priests, fanatics.
You know, they weren’t people that should
have a large movement, but they quickly
gained a very large movement because
they scared the shit out of everybody.
And that would, I think it was in effect,
a shock, a shock induction where, they
perform an act that is so shocking
that people need to recreate another
reality than reality is probably like,
I don’t want to challenge these people.
Because that could happen to me,
or I’m just going to run away,
which is sort of what happened.
And the Nazis then developed
very similar tactics.
You know, always start with shock
and make the shock so crazy.
But that’s basically the definition
of hypnotic suggestion, you know?
ISIS did the same thing,
cut off someone’s head.
So crazy and so shocking that the P
the your opponents are going to be
like, I don’t even want to dance.
You know, I’m not interested in, and
engaging with you because it’s so crazy.
And so that that principal
is still at work.
I think in all those situations.
I think it’s probably in the CIA
manuals and that kind of thing.
You know, it’s, it’s
taught, would be my guess.
you talked about a lot of,
different paradigms now.
is there anything else specifically
when it comes to challenging paradigms
that you would like to share with us.
Let’s just maybe just one that also,
I mean, I think hypnosis has, for
me, many implications, and I say this
sort of as not a hypnotist in a way.
It sounds fine to say that, but I say
that almost as a journalist, you know,
I’m looking at the sort of what’s going
on and I’m like, wow, this is interesting.
So one of the weirdest
aspects of hypnosis.
Is actually another side of it.
So if you go to a late night, it
knows the show in Las Vegas right now.
It’s just where the, generally
where the raciest shows are.
at the end of the show, commonly the
hypnotist will say something like,
when I sat in my fingers, everyone on
stage will have an enormous orgasm.
And then when you watch it
happens, what you see is like a
bunch of people riding around.
and it appears that
they are having orgasms.
So when you go to these shows, you know,
it’s usually people that are drunk.
People laugh, you know, quite a bit.
But I find like nobody really cares
about whether this is real or not.
And there’s a kind of nerd myself,
I, when I S I’ve seen this phenomenon
I saw maybe 10 years ago, of course,
my reaction was, is this real?
Are are these people just acting
like they’re having orgasms or
are they really having orgasms?
And so this blows another door wide open.
So, of course, I worked
with a group of people.
I’m interested obviously in experimental
hypnosis, and it’s not hard to do.
You can get a group of friends
together and you can just try things.
And so I, I got a group together
in Montreal called the Montreal
experimental trans group.
It’s a group of hypnotists, a
group of people that are interested
in hypnosis, people that are,
meditators, that kind of thing.
And we experimented
and we found out, Whoa.
Put somebody in a particular
trans, it’s a some nebulous trans,
which is not that hard to get.
Basically, a quarter of the population
can do it easily, and those people can
very easily be walked into a huge orgasm
in any situation that can be like,
so for example, I did a talk, right?
We filmed a woman who was an a in front
of a, in front of 12 people at a workshop,
you know, having an enormous orgasm.
And she certainly didn’t mind.
That is happens with people with their
clothes on, obviously with their consent.
and, but the implications are also huge.
Let me explain what I
think the implications are.
So I believe in, and this is a project
I’m working on right now, that one of the
problems with humanity is our sexual codes
and cultures are wrong and that they’re
often that most stress behavior, sorry.
Most sex behavior is
actually a stress behavior.
Meaning we live in a culture where people
are expected to reform men and women,
that somehow sex is this sort of act of.
High accomplishment, like a kind of
gymnastic exercise, which both partners
engage in is supposed to come naturally.
So, which it only does in a number
of rare occasions, and the fallout
is that most people feel like
they’re sexually dysfunctional.
A certain percentage of
men have never had orgasms.
And, I think that this
is a very easy to fix.
And it’s, again, it’s hypnosis.
Is the door, the doorway?
What hypnosis reveals is that, so,
so the one part I didn’t tell you
about earlier in explaining the whole
model for hypnosis, the last part
then maybe a significant here, is
that hypnosis basically allows you
to get into the programming language.
I’m unconscious human nature.
I mean, the reason why people go to,
you know, to quit smoking or something
along those lines or lose weight, is that
ultimately smoking is like a bad program.
You know, you, your body interprets
smoking as something that’s good for
you, but ultimately it’s bad for you.
Hypnosis is good at fixing that
because what we do is we get into the
programming language and we go, Oh,
this is what smoking really is and
this is what healthy things really are.
You should stop doing that
unhealthy thing and let’s start
doing the healthy thing so.
Really, hypnosis offers you access,
and it’s, you know, we’re, I know we’re
uncomfortable saying that people are
like computers, but hypnosis shows
that people are like computers a lot.
You know, we’re, we’re very sophisticated
computers, but we definitely run
programs and, and similarly, almost
everybody right now on our culture runs
sexual programs, cliche programs like.
I do this, and then you do that.
You do that, and I do this, and
that creates a lack of intimacy.
Closeness, ultimately a lack of love.
And from my point of view,
and it’s very easy to fix.
When people go to these very relaxed
States, they are far more orgasmic.
And these transits can have
And what’s interesting about them
is the orgasms can be, tailored.
so meeting somebody can have an orgasm
and you can tell them it’s going to
be lemon, it’s gonna, you’re gonna
taste lemon when you have the orgasm.
And then when you ask them
what it was like, they’ll say,
Holy cow, I had an orgasm.
And the whole thing was lemon flavor.
That sounds like a joke, but the
significance of it is that you’re
in the programming language.
So it means, like for example, I’ve
had clients, so clients are people who
love their husbands or love their wives
or love their partners, but they don’t
associate their partner with orgasms.
They just don’t, for whatever
reason, there’s a block there.
So it’s very easy to take that
person with their consent.
Put them into a deep trance and
then have them have an orgasm
about the person that they love.
And of course, orgasm.
Now, this is all theory.
One theory is that orgasm is a
target state, which in the hypnosis
target state is like you’re
trying to get to whatever that is.
So when you have a, an orgasm
about the person that you love.
Then you start to increase attraction
and arousal for that person if you,
even if you didn’t feel it before.
So this is a wonderful thing.
in the right hands, you know, it’s,
it’s a really beautiful thing.
And there are dangers with this,
I should mention, there are a
lot of ethical issues around it.
Of course you could manipulate
people possibly, but generally,
you know, I know those people would
probably listen to this thinking,
you know, what about mine control?
And, well, here’s the interesting
thing that when a hypnotist,
you know, works with you.
So let’s say hypnotist, let’s say as
a hypnotist, I was able to say to put
someone in a trance, and I’d say, at
the end of this experience, you’re going
to go to your bank account, withdraw
all your money, and email it to me,
and you’ll forget that you did it well
in an individual holodeck experience.
I might be able to do that.
I can make people forget things and
trends, like anyone who’s a good hypnotist
can make people forget things and trends,
but when they wake up, it all comes back.
It’s just a holodeck experience,
a temporary experience.
So then when they would remember, Hey,
you told me to, you know, you told me.
To, take all my money and give it to you.
So, and then I would get arrested.
So, so it doesn’t work.
It doesn’t pay if it knows this had the
ability that sometimes people think it
has in terms of manipulative or criminal
acts, there would be hypnotists committing
crimes everywhere, but they don’t,
I’ll maybe I’ll close with this one.
So there was an example, there
was a guy, I think in Italy.
Who was hypnotizing, he was
hypnotizing cashiers to drop their
money into a bag and they would do it.
They had video of like the cashier
would get a blank look and then he would
arrive and they would just take the
money out of the cash and put it in his
bag and he would run off with the money.
But what was funny about the story
was that eventually he got caught
because cashier like woke up in
the middle of it, which is typical.
And there’s another example of this at
of proves the reality of the situation.
So there’s a, there’s a hypnotist
called Spidey who really likes to
push the envelope of what can be done.
And what he did is he demonstrated
that he could drive, he would
drive through a stop sign knowing
that the police would catch him.
And then he would try to
hypnotize the police and to not
giving him a traffic ticket.
So he did.
There’s an amazing video.
You can look it up.
Hypnotists, I think, look, lookup
hypnotist police, you can find it
where the guy, he drives at twice
the speed limit through a stop sign
gets pulled over by the police.
They’re right there.
He knows they’re there.
He drives right in front of them,
gets her, you know, basically gets
pulled over and then he does hypnosis
and he actually uses snap inductions.
What he says to the police as he says.
You use another thing
called a pattern interrupt.
The police starts to story and
says, do you know that you drove?
And he says, hold on a second.
He says, do you know where
the next gas station is?
I’m sorry, I just want to ask you.
I just need to know
where the gas station is.
He says it politely and what that
phenomena is, it’s the same principle
that when you interrupt somebody’s
pattern, they’re more open to suggestion.
So, and then when the
police starts to talk.
The hypnotist snaps his
fingers and he says, yes.
So snap is a shock.
And he says, have you ever gone
somewhere and forgotten why you’re there?
So the hypnotist acts like he’s talking
about himself, but he’s really made
the suggestion to the police officer.
He’s basically gone.
Have you ever gone somewhere
and forgotten why you’re there?
And then that’s what happens
to the police officer.
He actually gets very confused.
And the hypnotist says, well,
I guess I can just go then.
And then the police officer
goes, yes, you can just go.
And then he drives away without a ticket.
Okay, so this is amazing.
When people see it,
they’re like, Holy cow.
Imagine the mind control possibilities.
Well, I know that hypnotist and
what he demonstrates at the end of
the video, which a lot of people
don’t see, is that he did this
five times or four or five times.
And four out of the five times
he got a ticket for like $157
so, and that’s roughly the
proportionality of how much it works.
You know, about a quarter of the
time people go deep, but it’s
not as successful crime tactic
because you’re going to get caught.
So the moral of the story is hypnosis,
in my view, is belongs to everybody.
There’s no reason that it has to be the
mystery purview of hypnotists, that it has
huge implications for human health safety.
It has huge implications for
human sexuality, and it offers
a kind of access point a way.
If you look at anybody’s problems
in their lives, very few problems
are, are conscious problems,
meaning nobody, you know.
Acts like a jerk and then says like, I
knew very well I was acting like a jerk.
Or usually are behaviors that
are problematic, are unconscious.
We get anxious, we get angry,
we get upset, we do unconscious
things, we get addicted.
These are all unconscious behaviors.
So hypnosis offers us a way to change
bad programs and to become better people.
And it’s easy.
It’s not that hard.
And the irony of it is that it all came
from Vienna, where you come from Anton
Mesmer and Antoine Mesmer, who was
the first person to really demonstrate
hypnosis publicly, widely was tragically
discredited, ridiculed, made fun,
and died tragically and obscurity.
Being made to feel that he was
wrong, that it was all witchcraft.
but he was right.
I really wonder, when you look back,
you’ve done a lot of different things.
with, I guess a fulfilled making.
You can look into very the various
fields and that you’re interested
in, and it gives you a certain type
of possibilities, but when you sum
it up, when you look into the past,
why would you say you do what you do.
That’s a good, very good question.
I would say that even as a
teenager, I had the sense that
I was living in a false reality.
So meeting, like I remember when I went
to high school that it was a little
bit like wash, like I was in a Walt
Disney movie where full of facades, and
I even think that many people’s human
personalities are a little bit like
facades because we’ve been giving these
cliche ways of being and ways of living.
And so I became hungry for the
awareness that there was more.
And I really think there is more.
I mean, not just, I’m not
talking just about hypnosis.
I mean, I, I bet this has
happened to you as well since
sort of pursuing paradigm shifts.
So you realize, I mean, I could go
on about Ayahuasca that’s a whole
other paradigm, you know, plant
medicine, whole other paradigm
aliens, a whole other paradigm.
So, so I think that, That’s
what really motivated me.
And I, you know, I think my father was,
my father was a scientist, a physicist,
and I think I might’ve inherited some
search for truth, you know, or for
me, I don’t know if this is same for
you, that I felt like the search for
truth actually makes my world safer.
You know, that, that it could,
it should work out to be a better
world for me and maybe my people, my
family, you know, that kind of thing.
If things are known.
Things are understood.
I’ve seen this with the pandemic.
One of the frightening
parts of the pandemic.
I don’t think it’s as bad in Europe,
but here in America, there’s a lot
of like, if you look at the history
of pandemics, there’s a part that
people aren’t talking about, which is
the, the weird scapegoating behavior.
So throughout pandemics, people.
There are, there are always burning
people at the stake during the pandemic.
Because they would blame the pandemic on
the guy with the weird house or the, or
the people with the darker skin or the,
you know, and those people would die.
And now it is not that
bad now, thankfully.
But you do see it the
similar pattern where.
Always somebody needs to be blamed.
The people not wearing masks.
The people that are old are
the people that are young.
Somebody’s always getting
blamed, and I actually think
that is part of the pandemic.
So the last thing I would say is
that us understanding this, what I’ve
also seen is that I’ve confronted
some people with, with, with, I’ve
accused them of using scapegoating
behavior, and I actually have seen
them correct their behavior right away.
They go, yeah, they kind of snap out of
it and go, Whoa, what was I doing there?
And so it’s one of the interesting areas
where awareness can make a big difference.
You know, when you say to the
people, it’s, you know, black
people didn’t cause a pandemic
there, they might go, you’re right.
You know, I have to think about that.
I shouldn’t, I should stop
blaming on somebody, you know?
so that’s something, so
knowledge really matters.
So I’m glad we did
So you, would you say it’s, would
it be like, seeking for truth and
showing a different type of reality?
And I think that, that, that my style has
always been a very clear street reality.
I was, before I was in, you
know, anything, like I was a
street performer, I was a street
musician, and that gave me like.
For some reason that really showed
me like I performed with every
kind of drunken, regular person.
So I sort of have a sense of
the, of the guy on the street,
man or woman on the street.
And I like that.
I like that I can speak to everyone
about things that might be quite
abstract or quite scientific.
And I think the world needs right
now, we, you know, we have the
knowledge for a better world.
We have the knowledge
to stop climate change.
We have the knowledge to stop
this pandemic it’s sort of
like the, we have to use it.
So like when you.
Go now into the future of your life and,
imagine yourself looking back, to today.
So what’s the impact you would have liked
to have had on humanity imagining from
your deathbed, for example, looking back.
I have a pretty clear answer.
I would want people to laugh because I
think laugh is this nod not on judgmental
shared universe, human, universal.
And I would rather be people
like, rather than people say,
that guy was really smart.
I’d rather they say, that
guy really made me laugh.
And, and because I guess a
good way to be remembered.
It’s a good feeling.
And, you know, I’m worried about
the way the world is going.
I think we’d have to do
a whole other podcast.
The world is not.
I don’t think, I think a lot of us aren’t
feeling it’s going in a good direction,
but, but I think there, like, like I
said, is I think the reason why you do
this and what you do, what you do, and
I do, I do, is that sharing important
information makes the world better.
Yes, thank you very much for all
this very interesting conversation.
So I wish you then a great day.
Thank you for staying tuned for this
edition of challenging paradigm max.
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